Talk:NASA

An event mentioned in this article is an October 1 selected anniversary. ---

TO ANYONE INTERESTED: I have 500 or so pages of 1960s era educational material regarding NASA satellites. Including several fold out posters. rather than trying to sell this on ebay I thought I would offer it up to you folks putting in the effort to maintain the NASA section of wikipedia. Please leave me a message on my user talk page if your interested. Hopefully this material will make it online in some form useful to wikipedia. Thanks for the good work guys --Alkivar 06-AUG-2004

Interesting! Is it public domain? If it is, you may want to consider putting the information on wikisource (http://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page:English). --NeuronExMachina 07:28, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I'm not 100% sure, but would assume since it was released for educational purposes and because NASA is a governmental agency it should be. That and the fact the information is 40 years or so old and should be darn near to public domain anyways. --Alkivar
Putting it on wikisource is a great idea. --Dumbo1 17:08, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I would however i do not have a functional scanner to OCR the sheets. hence why i offered it to anyone willing to undertake that project. Alkivar 01:36, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I have a flatbed and a handheld scanner. I'd be happy to scan some stuff for youPedant 19:36, 2004 Oct 6 (UTC)

I would like to remind you that 95% of world population have no clue what these US state acronyms mean. Could you please expand them to full form and link them to appropriate articles ? --Taw

Done. --Brion VIBBER

Just wanted to remind the recent editor that it's ok to leave wiki links red. You don't need to change them all to working links. Astudent 06:31, 2003 Oct 9 (UTC)

A link to whatever the Chinese call their space agency or info on the taikonaut program would be useful. --zandperl

I just created a redirect on National Aeronautics and Space Administration (not sure if I did it right, please check) to NASA. But when I was looking at the Wikipedia:Redirect info page, it says redirects should go the other way, from the abbreviation (NASA) to the full name (National...). Someone else please check and make necessary changes. Thanks. --Zandperl 00:09, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Perhaps a friendly passing sysop could delete National Aeronautics and Space Administration and move NASA to that title? Audin 01:01, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

This page is at NASA because it is much better known as NASA instead of National Aeronautics and Space Administration. In fact, NASA is a specific example (along with radar) given on Wikipedia:Naming conventions (acronyms) for this exception to the general convention. Another example would be SETI. --Minesweeper 00:29, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I disagree with that being a good reason to leave it at NASA...since a redirect from NASA to National Aeronautics and Space Administration would both help people who don't know what NASA means find the article AND inform them of the meaning. Anyway, it doesn't matter really. The article has already cycled once from NASA to National Aeronautics and Space Administration and back again.--Audin 02:11, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I twidled around a bit with the layout, as it looked rather suckmatic. I realise 'history' isn't a great section-header, but I needed to move the TOC up to make more efficient use of space (sic). The NASA logo still looks a bit off-kilter, mostly because the source image itself doesn't have the blue circle centred (and the CSS to fix that isn't really browser-portable). If I have time I'll overwrite it with a centred (and perhaps a bit smaller) one. Fundamentally the page is never going to look nice until there's more text. -- Finlay McWalter 23:10, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

OK - I've really tried to improve this page - please feel free (obviously) to improve as you can - any suggestions for me then please post them here or on my talk page. Tompagenet 17:15, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Contents
1 It is the National Aeronautics and Space Administration
2 Abbreviation vs. Full name
3 NPOV dispute: comments

3.1 NASA → National Aeronautics and Space Administration

4 Meatball?
5 NASA rank system
6 Mission insignia article?

It is the National Aeronautics and Space Administration

I think we need to add more content related to the fact that NASA doesn't just do space exploration. -Joseph 15:50, 2004 Jul 13 (UTC)

ditto that -- not much on earth-orbiting space stuff, either. All buck rogers. NASA certainly does not neglect the air part. It just ain't sexy enuf to get our attention -- or Congress', unfortunately. 24.75.67.173 19:10, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC) BTW -- move contents to full name article and redirect NASA to there -- is my vote.
unfortunately nasa itself ignores the 'air' part far too much. -- Audin 03:44, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Abbreviation vs. Full name

Any way we can put this up to a vote on which form we want to have it as? I personally completely disagree with leaving it as 'NASA' -Joseph 19:55, 2004 Jul 28 (UTC)

Just announce the vote here with some options and an end time, vote for as many options as you prefer. To get enough people to see it, it's worth mentioning on a few of the Wikipedia:Community portal subpages. (I have not mentioned it elsewhere yet.) -- ke4roh 10:08, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)

What should be the title of this article? Indicate your vote(s) by signing your name under the appropriate title(s). Vote for as many as you wish. Voting will end September 10, 2004 10:06 GMT.

NASA:

  1. ke4roh 10:08, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)
  2. Adrian Pingstone 09:13, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  3. Pedant 19:36, 2004 Oct 6 (UTC)NASA 17 million hits on google... National Aeronautics and Space Administration 24 hundred hits on google. NASA calls itself NASA...Pedant

National Aeronautics and Space Administration:

  1. ke4roh 10:08, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)
  2. Audin 14:45, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  3. Alkivar 18:11, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC) -- WITH REDIRECT FROM NASA
  4. I would rather see NASA as a redirect to the full title, as well. kmccoy (talk) 01:08, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  5. Jord 16:33, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration:

  1. Audin 14:45, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

NPOV dispute: comments

Regarding NPOV, here are a few points:

  • The Space Race was composed of numerous races: first artificial satellite, first human in space, first probe on the moon, first human on the moon, etc.
this information belongs on a page entitled "The Space Race" not on NASA which should solely deal with the exploits of the NASA research flights/projects and space missions. Alkivar 01:44, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Words such as "near-legendary" and "groundbreaking" are opinion.
  • There are many references to public opinion. Public opinion is important, but many NASA missions--both unmanned and manned--have been completed successfully without much fanfare, and this doesn't diminish the success of the mission.
agreed but this is not something to cause NPOV argument Alkivar 01:44, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • There is a bias towards unmanned space missions in the entire article, but most notably in the list of "NASA space missions" where there is a very short list of manned space missions and a very long list of unmanned space missions. The list of manned missions should be expanded, and perhaps both lists moved to a separate page: List of NASA space missions.
and how is this an NPOV argument? do you know what NPOV actually means? Alkivar 01:44, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments. Here is my explanation: where two subjects are of equal importance, a small number of facts about Subject 1 and a large number of facts about Subject 2 means a bias towards Subject 2. "While all facts might be presented fairly, the very selection (and omission) of facts can make an article biased." -- Wikipedia:NPOV dispute. Astudent 04:32, 2004 Oct 9 (UTC)
thats not exactly how i interpret it. if Subject 1 REPLACES Subject 2 to the articles detriment then i would call it NPOV. For example in an article about the 2004 US presidential election if it was 100% john kerry and 0% bush thats NPOV as its excluding one to BENEFIT the other... in this case we're not excluding Subject 2 to benefit Subject 1 ... we're not EXCLUDING anything. We just havent had anyone ADD it yet. thats my 2 cents worth anyway Alkivar 04:26, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but if the article on the 2004 election was 90% Kerry and 10% Bush, it would still be NPOV. I'm not saying that the article should be exactly 50-50 (just as feminists do not say that the gender ratio of employment should be exactly 50-50), but it should be roughly half-half. Astudent 14:31, 2004 Oct 15 (UTC)
  • There is no description of NASA's aeronautical research, eg. scramjet.

Astudent 01:43, 2004 Sep 20 (UTC)

Sorry, this is a duplicate post. The discussion "It is the National Aeronautics and Space Administration" has already noted the bias towards space. Astudent 14:31, 2004 Oct 15 (UTC)

NASA → National Aeronautics and Space Administration

Should be at full official name. Neutralitytalk 05:38, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)

  • Oppose - I can't see any point in moving this. Ask the average person what NASA stands for and relatively few people will get it right. Lets follow the example of BBC, FIFA, NATO etc. where the common abbreviation is used. Jooler 09:03, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Don't even need to oppose - this is used as an example on Wikipedia:Naming conventions (acronyms) - "Convention: Avoid the use of acronyms in page naming unless the term you are naming is almost exclusively known only by its acronyms and is widely known and used in that form (NASA, SETI, and radar are good examples)". -- Netoholic @ 09:24, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
    • Just because the naming convention page uses it as an example doesn't mean that the naming convention page is automatically correct. -Sean Curtin 00:41, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose - NASA is the normal means by which the organisation is referred to. -- Arwel 11:25, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The reason Wikipedia often avoids acronyms in titles is for disambiguation. The first 200 Google matches for NASA (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=NASA+&btnG=Search&meta=) all refer to the same organisation. Susvolans (pigs can fly) 12:10, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. NASA is by far the more common way of refering to this than the full name. older≠wiser 13:59, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • For once, Netoholic and I are in full agreement - the manual of style specifically refers to this article as being where it should be. →Raul654 17:13, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • If I say to Diane, "You should be more easy-going, like Jack here," I can hardly fault Jack when he later develops a weightier disposition. This is what we in the English language call an example, a simile used to make a particular point more clear, and I've never known one to be prescriptive. Too often we forget that we write the MOS, not the Hand of God, and the example added by some arbitrary contributor, while perhaps initially the very epitome of the case in point, is liable to be replaced at a later date. Support in protest of literal interpretation of our de facto policies. ADH (t&m) 18:47, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • ADH is right, the fact that this article is cited is not a reason to oppose this. Nevertheless, Oppose. —Michael Z. 16:29, 2005 Jan 14 (UTC)
  • Fuck the official name. Even the President calls it NASA. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 22:56, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • Just because the President calls it that doesn't mean that that usage is automatically the proper usage. -Sean Curtin 00:41, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
    • You may like to search the policies and guidelines to see if you can find the terms "proper" or "official" there. On the contrary, we put articles where people will expect to find them. Not even someone with a ramrod where his lower intestine should be would type "National Aeronautics and Space Administration" into the find box. We'd all type NASA, and that's a good reason to put the article at "NASA". Another one is that editors could then link the acronym NASA as [[NASA]] instead of [[National Aeronautics and Space Administration|NASA]], without generating a redirect. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 14:11, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. CIA, FBI, NAFTA and many more government agency and program acronyms are all redirects. NASA is not a special case. -Sean Curtin 00:41, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. NB NAFTA should probably be moved to the acronym; maybe CIA and FBI too (but they're abbreviations; maybe the convention is different?). Rd232 00:52, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Just because something is formally correct does not mean it's the best title. I doubt you'd like to move Bill Gates to William Henry Gates, III as well. -- Cyrius|✎ 01:48, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose -- DCEdwards1966 15:44, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. It's pointless, and makes linking without redirects much more difficult than they need to be. Gene Nygaard 01:16, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose. We don't have Australia at the Commonwealth of Australia, North Korea isn't Democratic People's Republic of Korea. The reason CIA and FBI are redirected is that there are other things called CIA and FBI and so to avoid have CIA (intelligence service) or whatever, they are redirected. There isn't that problem with NASA Evil Monkey → Talk 03:10, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

Meatball?

NASA insignia, showing a wingshape and an orbiting spacecraft on a starfield. 1958–1975, 1992–present. Also known as the "meatball".

Could an explanation of the nickname "meatball" be put in the article somewhere? I hadn't heard it before, and saw it in the caption for one of the logos, and thought perhaps I could learn about it, but nope. - Vague | Rant 11:09, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

There's an article at meatball - I tried to set it up as a link in the description of the image, but it takes it out of the 'mouse-over' description. Berek 16:08, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Right, I know what a meatball is, but the logo didn't particularly raise the image of a meatball in my head upon seeing it, and still doesn't. So basically, I don't understand why it's called the "meatball", and can't find that out in the article. - Vague | Rant 04:38, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Maybe the sprackling of stars gives it the appearance of fine ground meat? That certainly is the traditional name. Daniel S. Goldin reinstitued it to bring back the "glory days".--Pharos 09:47, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Traditionally, a "meatball" is Navy fighter pilots' jargon for the old red, ball-shaped light that aviators used to determine their glideslope while on approach for landing on an aircraft carrier... (reference in Top Gun, when Cougar is trying to make a landing, radio control tells him to "call the ball," which means acknowledge that he sees the glideslope indicator). It is often coopted by those of a military mindset to apply to basically anything round. In its early days NASA was (and still is) a haven for ex-military folks, so it makes sense that the round NASA logo ended up being called a "meatball." Katefan0 16:33, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)

I recall that astronauts on project Apollo called it that in interviews in the mid 60's FWIW.

the following is from: The NASA "History of the Insignia page" (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/insignia/insignia.html)

The NASA Insignia (more commonly referred to as the "meatball") reflects the history and tradition of the Agency and is used in all of the Agency's day-to-day communications materials. Designed in 1959 by former NASA employee James Modarelli, the NASA Insignia contains the following elements: 

   * The sphere represents a planet
   * The stars represent space
   * The vector represents aeronautics
   * The orbit represents space travel

The NASA Logo has been retired since 1992. It is reserved for special use (such as for commercial merchandising purposes) and must be approved by the Visual Identity Coordinator at NASA Headquarters. The NASA Logo should never be used with the NASA Insignia.

The NASA Seal should be reserved for use in connection with the NASA Administrator, such as for award presentations, formal events and activities which are ceremonial or traditional in nature.

The Seal should never be used with the NASA Insignia. The two elements are intended for different purposes and are visually incompatible when seen side by side.

Contact the Visual Identity Coordinator at NASA Headquartes for advice on the use of the NASA Seal. (end excerpt) According to another reference, the meatball was never referred to officially as CORRECTION meatball until it was 'retired' in 1992.the "meatball" until 1975, when NASA decided a more modern logo was in order and switched to the "worm" Pedant 20:51, 2005 Mar 7 (UTC) It is still used for some purposes.

see also: NASA's word of the week 'meatball' page (http://grcpublishing.grc.nasa.gov/WordOfWeekArchive/week47.cfm) Pedant 20:23, 2005 Mar 7 (UTC)

  • The "logo" that was retired in 1992 was the worm; it was replaced by the prodigal meatball.--Pharos 20:33, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)


I moved the "Meatball" logo to the top. I feel its more relevent than a logo that hasn't been used in 50+ years. --Silver86 23:47, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

NASA rank system

Does anybody have any info on NASA's rank system for astronauts? They do have one right? Presumably some would have to out-rank others or everybody wouldn't work together very well.

  • They don't, really. Once assigned to a crew, the astronaut assigned to be shuttle commander is the one responsible for the mission, with the shuttle pilot generally considered the second in command in terms of the overall mission. Mission specialists are astronauts that do the science missions, and payload specialists are generally astronauts that are on board specifically to work with a company-sponsored payload. There's no real rank system otherwise though. Everybody's assigned a clear-cut job that they're expected to do, they all train together and the missions are highly orchestrated. There's not really any "hey you, go do this" once they're on orbit. If there are problems I imagine the shuttle commander would have the final word, and of course there's a social hierarchy (socially the pilot astronauts are generally considered the alpha astronauts, as opposed to the mission specialists). But no real rank system as such. Katefan0 16:22, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

About "Other space agencies" - that IMO should be in its own article. Here should be only reference in section "Related topic". How name that new article? "List of space agencies"?

Mission insignia article?

I was browing around through some shuttle mission pages and got to wondering if there was an article, or perhaps just a paragraph, about all the different NASA mission insignia. Since every mission seems to have its own pretty cool and unique insignia I think it'd be cool if there was a little history or background, maybe even a page linking to all the different insignia as there are tons of them already uploaded to Wikipedia.

Does this strike anyone else as interesting? Anyone have some good knowledge about the mission insignia?

--Fxer 16:19, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

There's certainly a lot of good material in Jenkins, and every press kit since the Apollo days explains that mission's insignia. It'd certainly be worth a page, but there's enough of a backlog - for me, anyway - as it is... Shimgray 19:35, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For the latest Shuttle missions if you go to spaceflight.nasa.gov they always have a caption describing what the patches mean. For example here (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-114/html/sts114-s-001.html). This would be a good place to start for information. They could either go in the articles (being PD-USGov-NASA) or on the image description page. Evil Monkey∴Hello 21:05, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
I've been digging through the Shuttle pages of late (slowly adding flight information for everyone as per Apollo 8), and some already have brief explanations of the insignia, as do some Apollo pages. It'd certainly be interesting to add. Shimgray 21:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
When I expanded some of the Gemini program articles I included a description of the mission insignia on them as well. Evil Monkey∴Hello 00:21, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
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