User talk:Zain engineer

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Good luck!

Assalam o-alaikum !

Hi there. I think the links given by Meelar above are excellent for you to read (mushqil nehi hai). They will give you great aid in figuring out the minor issues in Wikipedia. I also suggest that you hit "edit this page" and see the commands that people put in to achieve certain results. For instance, if I want to create a new section, a type "==" title "==". I under that I want to make a sub-heading I will right "===" sub-title "===". Aap zaraa yahaan jake dekhiye agar formatting ke bare mein koi savaal hai: [[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page)]. Mera ummid hai ki aap zaraa English panno mein Urdu ghazalon aur afsaano (ya kuch bhi, jo aapko pasand hai!) pe likh sakein. Meri urdu aaj tak paak nehi hai, to ab tak zyaadaa literature nehi pad sakhe hain. Come here if you need any questions answered: [[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LordSuryaofShropshire)] Khuda Hafez --LordSuryaofShropshire 01:09, Jul 24, 2004 (UTC)

Reason I removed your addition

Dear Zain,

I removed your addition to the main Islam article, re relations between the various Sunni schools of law, because the issue is covered in the article on madhab. The Islam article is already too long, which is why you get a warning when you start to edit.

Wikipedia suffers from a syndrome I call "main-article-ism". People want to jam all the detail into one article, and fight over it endlessly, rather than spreading it out into linked articles. But when the article is too long, users won't read all of it.

I hope that you won't feel personally attacked by my action. Zora 03:20, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Pakistanis/People interested in Pakistan-related topics on Wikipedia

I have noticed that you contribute to topics related to Pakistan, South Asia, Islam and Muslims. Thought I woudl draw your attention to Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Pakistan. Would you would want to list yourself there?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 01:08, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

You will never get anywhere trying to reason with the bastards

They are just pigs. --Wiesenthaler 20:38, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have supreve plans (believe me). plz talk with me in detail and let's create good group. Zain 21:01, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hi Zain. Good luck in your quest to vanquish the pigs and monkeys. They deserve to rot in hell, and they will, that's for sure. --Wiesenthaler 03:26, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Winning or loosing is not a point here at all (for me at least) I won't care if all the wikipedia is changed to what POV desires. I don't care if every body agrees with them. for me what matters is my believe. For me what will end result is my believe. But you act alone too much. I can change a lot more then you think. get in contact with me using email. email me (if you don't trust, email from a fake ID) doesn't matter I just want to be in contact with you in private.

Zain 03:45, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Christian terrorism

Zain, please stop adding "List of arguably terrorist countries" to Christian terrorism. Wikipedia does not allow original research. This means that all your claims must have been published elsewhere in a reputable publication, and if you are challenged by another editor, you must provide a citation. You can't keep on re-inserting unsubstantiated claims. Please read Wikipedia:No original research. Slim 23:35, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

We did thorough discussion on talk page on 'definition of terrorism' without any orignal source please see it in detail.

Zain 23:48, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Waaalikum us-Salam

How can I help? - Mustafaa 11:15, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Of course :-) Actually i was asking is there any method to work in cooporation to help understand similar point of views.

Thanks

Zain 11:34, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, there's no magic bullet... You just have to source as many claims as possible, discuss things on Talk when appropriate, and generally respect honest disagreements and provide evidence even against dishonest ones. I think you're doing a pretty good job of that so far, although I don't agree with all your suggestions. - Mustafaa 13:46, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Can you please tell me which suggestion u don't agree with. and what about cooperation in work? Thanks

Zain 14:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, on the Jewish population thing, but I think that got resolved to everyone's satisfaction. What sort of cooperation do you have in mind? - Mustafaa 14:27, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

One I might suggest as useful is to keep a public list (analogous to User:Jayjg's) of conflict articles which currently have POV problems. - Mustafaa 15:40, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I dunno; try "E-mail this user" on the sidebar? - Mustafaa 11:21, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I tried in one of his (If he is one) addresses but no response. Do you know other people like him who are quite motivated to make changes. Have a lot of refrences, But ussually their changes are reverted. I'll like to communicate with them.

Second I'll like to find people in wikipedia, who are very convinced that current wikipedia methodology can be improved(not related to POV only but to other issues also). I will like to work with them.

Zain 12:14, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Re your good idea for a page

"Request for a Page on criticism of Wikipedia, which can be mercilessly edited by users"

I saw your message and have copied my answer here in case they delete from that talk page:-

"Zain you ask if you can create a page for opinion and he say's; "as long as it's NPOV", i.e. has no opinions on it! Of course you're right the wikipedia is full of pages with people giving their opinions on the wikipedia [this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ambivalenthysteria/top_sekrit_sysop_kabal)] for example and [this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Quadell/Friend_of_the_ArbCom)]. And the admins have their own [noticeboard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard)]. But you can go to seedwiki (http://www.seedwiki.com/) and instantly create your own 50 page wiki that we can use to give our views on. And where you can also "Start as many wikis as you need". WikiUser 19:10, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)" Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales"

I am intrested in making normal NPOV article only. all POV things can be discuss on talk pages of it.

Zain 20:13, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you intend then Zain. For example you said; " No need to mention expected inclusive deletion debate. Voting policy every thing." As you've seen on "User_talk:Jimbo_Wales" people don't agree on what's wrong with the wikipedia so it will be hard to have an article on that subject. Criticisms of the wikipedia have been made by many, do you mean a review of the wikipedia? WikiUser 21:09, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I didn't say that I want it but I said it might get in this direction as it can be edited similarly to any other article. So there is a chance that article might get into this direction. I was just telling its 'potential negatives' , not its 'desired negatives'.

I was saying that I am doing it in good faith. But others can change it which might be seen as undesired to some dedicated wikipedians. So that's why I seeked permission by stating negatives which came in my mind.

Zain 21:20, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm afraid you'll just have to be patient with your request for mediation. It might take a few days though, as the Committee is going through a bit of a difficult period (four of the most active members are leaving next week). Ambi 22:41, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Regarding request for help

I've been looking at a few of your edits on Arab-Israeli conflict. The first think I noticed is that you are not quite fluent in English yet. So you can expect considerable copyediting from everyone due to your idiosyntric mode of expression. The second thing I notice is that you are editing without apparent reference to any scholarly reference work, at least you mention none. This is sure to result in challenges to your edits. Fred Bauder 22:46, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)

I am asking for mediation in another article.

I accept my English is not good. I know the main reason. I make sentences too loooong.
In this article I am not offering many references but please note nobody disagreed with what I wrote, factually. But you are right. If I see some thing as 'known to every body' may be it is not the right assumption.

First factual content was very minimal in what I wrote, because most of the claims I wrote were rather ‘subjective’ type.

- (Which I linked)

- - Jewish Persecution (I gave the reference, internal link)
  - Migration to Ottoman Empire (It was mentioned in the internal link)
  - Mirzahi Jews problem (Gave internal link)

- (Which I assumed as known)
  - Millions of refugees (I thought it is known)
  - Millions of palestinians (I thought it is known too)
  - non-Arab stuff (thought known)
  - Active attention started when violence started (I thought known)
  - Wars by 'world powers' caused more deaths.
  - Boston Tea party is labeled as terrorism by british of that times.

- (Which I assumed understandable and known)
  - some groups calling israeli as illegal occupant.
  - they see land as their right.
  - Many see international community not useful
  - Some might see civilian killings regretful
  - Some might see there is no other way out then violence.

But My other articles are usually accompanied by lot of proving material. I usually spend more time on searching then writing.

Ok now about dispute resolution. it is article on State Terrorism. Can you help in mediating with Jyajg?

Zain 23:12, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have my own wiki criticism at: kapitalism.net (http://www.kapitalism.net/thoughts/wikipedia.htm) 65.103.53.243

Add it in external links if you want

You are not doing the right thing

Please revert the article to the version I had. You are not doing the Palestinians or anybody else any service by encouraging the placement of unrefined and propagandesque material. Additionally, this type of addition will very quickly make the article useless, and will turn a perfectly encyclopedic article into a deletable item. Tarek 01:10, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

A quick response

Is Wikipedia:User Suggestions chooses correct location? Should I reallocate it?

Zain 02:03, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm not really sure. You should ask someone else. Angela knows everything. :-) --Jimbo Wales 02:38, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Alternative Judaism

Zain, I think that Alternative Judaism is a good place to put the disclaimer about other religious groups that claim they are Jews, but I do think it is worth looking at the links a bit further, since I think you might have misread some of them. Also, remember that there is a difference between claiming descent from the "Israelites" and actually claiming to be practicing Judaism. Here are the links you keep using to illustrate your points, and that you added to the article Alternative Judaism:

Anglo-Israelism -- Never claimed to be Jews, they claim that the English are the descendents of the lost tribes of Israelites. Nowhere on their site do they claim to be Jewish or practicing Judaism. I do not think there is a good argument that these people are Jews in any way. They can and are identified in the Ten Lost Tribes article.
Christian Identity -- Weird choice. They hate Jews, look at the text of the article, where they explicitly condemn Judaism as evil. Certainly not an alternative form of Judaism, nor are they Jews.
Talmidaism -- A subset of Christianity, or possibly Messianic Judaism, which is already in the article.
Nazarene-- A subset of Messianic Judaism, which is already in the article. You can list it under Messianic Judaism as a subpoint, if that would be clearer for you.
Messianic Judaism -- Already in the article that you edited
Judaizing teachers -- A historical label referring to one side of the debate among early Christians, not a current group or religion in any way.
Jews for Jesus -- Already in the article that you edited
Messianic Renewed Judaism -- A minor subset of Messianic Judaism
Lost Ten Tribes -- Not a religion, but another good place to put these sort of links
British-Israel-World Federation -- See Anglo-Israelism

I am open to discussion on these, but do read through the individual articles first. Do you agree or disagree with these points? It would be good to get this resolved. --Goodoldpolonius2 14:54, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hi Zain, I made some comments over on Talk:Jew earlier today, and some others did also. You did bring up a good point I think and people came to agree that this sentence which described "ethnic Jews" was problematic: "Ethnic Jews include both so-called "religious Jews," meaning those who practice Judaism, and so-called "secular Jews," those who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews in a cultural or ethnic sense." You were right that this definition did exclude people like Madeline Albright who would have failed this limited definition since she is neither a religious Jew nor a secular Jew. Goodoldpolonius made some modifications that I believe broadened the definition more to include people with Jewish heritage. Check it out. I hope this was helpful. I appreciate your efforts there : ) --MPerel 06:04, Jan 6, 2005 (UTC)

New User Page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Zain_engineer/MyWorks Zain 22:43, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Test

Hello. I don't quite understand the purpose of Wikipedia:Testtodelete. As you can see, it has now been deleted. SWAdair | Talk 07:13, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sorry I am on eid Holidays. Actually I only created it to test how to put pages for delete. I think I can't test it on sandbox. So I thought non-article place is better. And thought it is perfect title. But You put it for delete before i did :) can u tell me how to put pages for delete? Zain 21:39, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

To mark a page for speedy deletion, just add {{delete}} at the top of the page (do not wipe out the contents of the page, just add the tag at the top). If you think it might not be obvious why a page should be speedily deleted, and want to give a reason, you can add {{deletebecause|your reason here}} or {{db|your reason here}}. Note that these tags should only be used for pages that qualify as Candidates for Speedy Deletion. SWAdair | Talk 10:57, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Move and reverts of Children and minors in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

I don't think it was a very good idea to make a new page. Consensus doesn't mean that everyone has to agree. I believe there was a consensus that the version you support was not the working version. However, I thought it would best to confirm this on the Talk page. If you have concerns, I think the best forum is the talk page. Thanks. Carrp 23:26, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thing is that move /delete should be done after due process. Last one was done without following wikipedia policy. Any way does 3 move count as 3 recirect? Zain 23:36, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If you continue to move this article to the POV title, you will be blocked from editing. Discuss it on the Talk page, and follow consensus, please. Rick K 00:56, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

It was not I who moved the page without following the policy defined process. I asked that this page should be moved in accordance with the policy. Problem is 3R doesn't apply on move. May be if we get a decision from some decision mechanism then we can ask people from stop moving, not before that. My move was not move but it is reverting the illegal move.

As far as discussion is concern if you see history of discussion page. I was the one who posted the last msg! all other people did edits and moves without explaing. people who did moves without discussion got no 'block threat'. And I who moved after talk and refering to wikipedia policy in the talk page was told that i might be blocked!

Why move was not done in accordance to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves. And If I revert the move which was done without due process I might be blocked. I mentioned the references to wikipedia policies several times during the discussion. No body was able to explain why it was done out of process. Why it didn't follow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves. Can you explain why it was done without following the process of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves . And if it can be done without it Why we have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves. If this page is useless then we can put it for vfd. Rest can be discussed on vfd page.

Zain 01:16, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Jews in USA?

Zain, the VfD page was crowded, so I decided to take this here. Why not just make "Jews in USA" a redirect to History of the Jews in the United States, or else to Jewish American (or move the Jewish American text to "Jews in USA" and make "Jewish American" a redirect, if you prefer, although "Jews in USA" is a bit awkward for English speakers, maybe "Jews in the USA"). Since the text you used was copyrighted, perhaps you could write something up for either of the existing articles that would have the content you would like without the source problems, since I don't really know what content you were looking for.. --Goodoldpolonius2 06:28, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Re : your website not working

Apologies for the 1-month-late-reply re: your issue raised at User_talk:Mailer_diablo/Stats on December 24. My host was dead for 3 weeks during that period of time due to some bad outage, but it's back working now. [3] (http://www.PlanetKH.com). Thanks for your message, have a nice day! :) - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 13:17, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Islamophobia

Keep an eye on the article Islamophobia. I see a bunch of ant-Islamic POV pushers there. See the talk page OneGuy 01:07, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Please expand the Hafiz article.

السلام عليكم, I read from [Talk:Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Islam#Zain_Engineer.27s_edits_on_the_Qur.27an_section)] that you have good knowledge about Hafiz. Could you please expand the article - DiN 21:44, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Request for Support

I've filed a complaint against user Jayjg for abuse of Admin powers, and for Anti-Arab and Anti-Islamic bias. This link [[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Evidence_presented_by_A.Khalil)] will take you to the Arbitration page. I think that you too have been subject to similar treatment with biased edits and reverts of your contributions to Wikipedia, and I would appreciate any additional evidence you can provide in this case. A.Khalil 04:38, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Assalamu alaykum -- please vote

Please consider voting at:

Wikipedia:Conspiracy_theory

to rename articles that use the pejorative term "Conspiracy theory" to denigrate the content of the article.

Do the titles of WP articles generally pass partisan judgment on the subject under discussion? Should they? BrandonYusufToropov 02:31, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

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