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Thanks for the information. We newbies probably look really stupid sometimes. Bmills

not at all. Did you follow the bit about private namespace prefix? I typed it rather hastily. It is quite a useful feature. -- Viajero 12:58, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. I'll use it in future. Bmills

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I've moved your user talk, originally named Archive 1 to User talk:Viajero/Archive 1, bringing it into your user namespace. - user:zanimum

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Well, there are two ways; you can move the page or just cut and paste but I can't find any guidelines on which of these is correct or preferred. Personally, I have always used cut and paste as I think it makes more sense for the page history to be kept together in one place. When I archive an article talk page I only archive the older discussion. I leave anything still current on the page which avoids the problem of people replying in an archive. Perhaps you need to find someone who archives using the 'move' method and find out what their justifications for that are. I can't see any advantage in it really, and the fact that the archive is then added to watchlists is a bit annoying. Angela 20:35, Nov 6, 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, I always go with cut-n-paste for archives too, since they're effectively read-only repositories of ancient text, and the single page history at the talk page can give you every change back to the beginning even if most of the text was later archived. I suppose we ought to write this down somewhere, the first time I did I was completely unsure about what to do. Stan 21:35, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Re: Neustadt. Can you give me a source? Everything I can find says England. -- Cyan 09:46, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hmmm, see what you mean. Another user mentioned on a (Talk page in a different context that the reference in that article should have been to Wellfleet, Mass. However, checking things, I see the Guardian says he died in London [1] (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/politicsobituaries/story/0,1441,1076386,00.html). However, the reference to Welfleet, England (sic) is still wrong; he did have a summer house in Wellfleet, Mass. Just delete it I would say.

This will teach me to believe what I read on Talk pages!!! -- Viajero 09:59, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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As I recall, I made two changes to the page. In the first, I altered the text in a major way. I suppose that I should have indicated what I was doing, but I believe that to be the only breach of the Wikipedia's rules and conventions. Any minor edit I made was to correct a spelling mistake. If I did mistakenly mark the main change as a minor edit, then you have my profuse apologies.

Coming on to the NPOV point, what do you disagree with? Malathir's comments were racist. He has made similar comments in the past consistently enough that I feel labelling him a racist is quite correct. If you want, I will dig up some specific quotes for you. I accuse him of having a myopic view of Judaism. Myopia is not seeing what is really there due a vision fault. If he is an anti-Semite and racist, then his rantings about Jews controlling the world qualify as myopia about Jews. I then do not say that such views are common in the Muslim world. I say that they are common enough to cause concern. Many people I know share those concerns, and they are reflected amongst larger sections of the western world than just people I know.

Finally, the point about Nazi ideology may well have stuck in your craw. I did not say that lightly. Take a look at the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem; he was best buddies with Adolf Hiter. The Mufti's nephew learnt much of his hatred of Jews from his uncle. That nephew is Yasser Arafat. He represents one of the more extreme versions of Muslim anti-Semitism, and he is only one step away from picking it up directly from Hitler himself. Malathir is not that bad, but he is still a vicious bigot. He comes from a region that is supposedly known for its moderate version of Islam, in a country that is one of the most secular in the Muslim world. However, he still produces bilge on Jews ruling the world etc. David Newton 18:47, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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I unprotected User:Viajero - assuming accidental/old vandal/etc. If deliberate, please re-protect and drop a quick line of explanation on wikipedia:protected page and/or on the page itself. Thanks. Martin 18:11, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Thanks for protecting Mother Teresa. I have been just about fed up with Wiks unilateral decision to start an edit war. I was adding stuff, and i thought there was a Criticisms of Mother Teresa article which had already been decided on, so I removed the info that kept being added. Alexandros 22:41, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Well, whatever. In any case, Alexander, please take my advice: take Mother Teresa off your Watchlist and work on some of your own article projects for awhile. Don't get burned out on that particular issue. Thanks for your note. Take care... -- Viajero 22:47, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Viajero: I think a post of mine in the talk page of MT's page is interesting because some info (all concerning her beatification and so on) has disappeared in the mess and from the talk page, everybody agreed that this section was OK (it took Adam quite a while to work out his article and now it is crippled). There is no discussion in the talk page concerning that section but it was when Adam's version was first included and now it is not. I know it may be quite controversial, but it is just fair (in my opinion, of course...). TIA. Pfortuny 16:10, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hola, yes, I know the passage you are referring to:

After her death, the Holy See immediately began the process of beatification, the first step towards possible canonization, or sainthood. This process requires the documentation of a miracle, and in autumn 2002, the Vatican recognized the healing of a purported tumor in the abdomen of Dangram, India resident Monica Besra through the application of a locket containing Teresa's picture. Her husband disagrees and believes that the lump in her adomen was not cured by divine intervention, but by later hospital treatment. Meanwhile, according to a TIME Asia report, records of her treatment have been taken away by a member of the order, and the Balurghat Hospital where Besra was treated reported coming under pressure from the missionaries to acknowledge that the healing process was the result of a miracle. [1] Despite the controversy, on 19 October 2003 Pope John Paul II made a formal pronouncement that Agnes Bojaxhiu had been beatified by the church. Teresa's miraculous intercessory powers will need to be further confirmed by the Catholic Church before she is elevated to sainthood.

It is this, right? I remember it because I also edited this section once about a month ago -- it was the only direct involvement I have had in the text. I had to go way back to mid-October to find, at least at 100 versions earlier(!!!). I don't think it is controversial -- it was even one of the parts of the text that Adam took over from the earlier version -- and certainly belongs in the text. At this point though I don't know what to say. Someone will have to take responsibility for mediating some kind of compromise. When that happens, we can insure the text is reinserted.

-- Viajero 17:02, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not clarify. There are two sections missing ("Teresa as a Celebrity" and "Beatification of MT") which were around just before Alexandros started his last sequence of edits, then 2toise reverted his deletions on the criticisms (which is OK) but kept his deletions and "mis"-edits in the ""pro-"" section. It will be more complicated than I thought, but I think as they were in Adam's version and were there till Alexandros' multiple edits, they should appear. No action now, thanks. Sorry for writing so large for so little. I think we might get an easy agreement in the talk page. Don't bother and thanks. Pfortuny 17:06, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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I'll keep an eye on it; don't want to do it just yet as they've only had one round so far today. - Hephaestos 19:34, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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I've suggested an alternative at Wikipedia talk:How to archive a Talk page. I'm not sure whether that should go on the help page though as I don't know whether any objects to the method. Angela 21:30, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Hello. I am glad to see you in the Latin America Wikiproject. Do not hesitate to edit that page. --Youssef 11:41, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hola amigo, ya sabías que me interesa mucho este parte del mundo, pero por disgracia recién hoy descubré esta página. Sí, queda mucho para hacer. ¡Adelante! -- Viajero 12:05, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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A lot of what he's put on Current Events recently has been a bit borderline as to being of general interest news. Bmills 15:52, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Hi, before you archived your talk page I wrote "Hmmm, I don't know who this 'niceguy' is. I assumed at first he was Heine as he moved Heine off the page a while ago, but I doubt that now. I doubt it's a newbie either". I've just realised Heine and Nico are (probably) the same person, so I'm reverting to my initial assumption that niceguy is (probably) Heine, hence such removals from Wikipedia:problem users should be watched more closely. Angela 17:50, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Thanks for the work on Brian Coffey: your intro is much stronger than mine was. I've added a paragraph on his later life that somehow got lost earlier. I seem to be on a run with obscure modernists amd groups of modernists at the moment, and it's nice to see someone is reading what I'm doing. Bmills 14:33, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Could you copy your list comments to wikipedia talk:problem users? There's been previous discussion about renaming, and it'd be good to keep it in one place. Martin 19:27, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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answer@mother_teresa. :)

Thanks for the compliment. I realize I am not the easiest-to-be-read writer, though. Especially when I get worried. Pfortuny 17:37, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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On the lovely Mother Teresa - I'm waiting for agreement from Mr Plank before doing *anything*. Secretlondon 18:48, Nov 13, 2003 (UTC)

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Sorry to bother you, but after reading your recent arguments with martin and jtdirl, I think it would be best to refer you to Wikipedia:wikiquette. The line reading, No personal attacks; while criticising the work of other contributors is fine, personal attacks and insults regarding their race, sex, creed etc. are unacceptable. For further guidance, see No personal attacks. especially applies to your comments. Alexandros 00:10, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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I think I must tell you User:Pfortuny/private1 what I am about to post at the talk page. If you find it too harsh, please do tell me. I will wait for your answer before pasting it in the Mother Teresa talk page. Thanks. Pfortuny 12:40, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Thanks for the compliment. I posted it on the mailing list. --Uncle Ed 22:05, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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From your comments I guess you are not happy - although I believe that Pfortuny is. I don't know what Adam Carr thinks - I would not be happy if the article pleases only the catholics - because this will not have solved the problem. Secretlondon 22:09, Nov 14, 2003 (UTC)

Sure, I'll try to keep an eye on it, but I'm not going to be around for much this evening. Angela 22:21, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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I made the comments in his page bc I did not want to have this conversation in public (I guessed you were not in agreement :)...

On one hand I really thought something like what Ed did was necessary to keep the article going on, but I felt quite quite sorry at Adam's withdrawal. But I prefer freedom to depending on someone for editing an article.

I was surprised at Ed's unblocking the page, but then I thought "someone should do it, anyway". I also never assumed my opinion would be definitive for the unblocking... It is quite messy. I am happy for the "unblocking" but unhappy for Adam's going away and your (and others, I guess) worries......

My mind is not too clear, as you can see. Pfortuny 15:32, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Thanks for the welcome. Petermanchester 16:14, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Answer in my talk page. Don't want to waste your disk space :)Pfortuny 16:27, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Viajero, concerning your open letter:

• I never actually wrote I was a Catholic anywhere. Is it so obvious? :)
• You are right. The debate needs and has to be faced. If this is a serious project to last for a good while, these problems have to be studied and solved "in general".

On the other hand, if I may be a bit personal... We would be more convincing if there were no harsh words in our writings. No offence intended, simply thinking aloud.

Again thanks for your help and please inform me if the above debate begins. Pfortuny 21:01, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Nop! You guessed I am a Catholic, and I am one, so why not saying it? I was simply kidding.

The harshness referred not to our conversation (it has NEVER even approached harshness) but some words in one comment of yours in the MT talk page after Ed's unblocking and in the letter to Ed. I did not mean you had been harsh to me ever, sorry for not being clear!

Yes, my words are not written in stone, but... I got so annoyed at Eloquences behaviour I thought it was best for me to withdraw for a while. I'll think it twice, though :) Pfortuny 21:27, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Quick question: how can I ask for Irish literature to be removed from Pages needing attention? Bmills 11:27, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

If you think it no longer needs to be listed, just delete it yourself! -- Viajero 11:43, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks again for all your help. Bmills 11:45, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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I need your advice. A newbie whose first language clearly is not English has added two paragraphs at the start of Poetry. These are poorly written and I do not believe thaey belong anyway. However, I'd be the last person to want to discourage an enthusiastic newcomer. Could you have a look at the page and suggest a suitable course of action? Thanks Bmills 09:47, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Let see, ummm Poetry... Page History... Mrs.Medha... User contributions... Yep. We are in total agreement on one thing: her text has got to go. Now, you have basically two options, depending on your humeur: You can revert the text with a terse comment in the Summary. Or you can "move" her text to the Talk page with a comment about it "needing work". If you want to be exceedingly diplomatic, you could even leave a note on her Talk page, thanking her for her contribution, saying that it wasn't quite encyclopedic, and referring her to Wikipedia:NPOV and other help/style pages, and saying that you hope she will continue to contribute after familiarizing herself with the site etc. etc. (This will partly depend on whether you think she is just passing by or a keeper.)

Hope this helps. -- Viajero 11:33, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Thanks. I won't revert. Bmills 12:06, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Good correction on Current events. I hadn't realised I had removed the cocoa link reference when I removed some other ones. Thats what comes from watching TV and editing a page at the same time! Good revertion. Wikilove. FearÉIREANN 00:18, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Blanaid Salkeld: thanks again. A much better intro. Bmills 09:13, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi Viajero, as you speak Spanish, would you mind having a look at Sotavento(province) please to see if it is worth translating or if you think it should be deleted? Thank you. Angela 19:34, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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"be nice to the newcomer." What happened in my case?

Dec. 6, 2003

Sterlingda: Check User Talk:Sterlingda for answers!!!!

Dear Wikipedia Admin (via Viajero)

I just had an entry I spent hours preparing this morning deleted of Wikipedia. http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/sterling_allan

I woke up at 5:00 am after going to bed at 2:00 am, and finished at around 10:00 am.

Now it's gone from Wikipedia because it was deemed "self promotion."

They didn't give me a chance to re-write it. They didn't give me a warning. The only warning I got was that I happened to go to the page late this evening (past midnight, actually) in time to see that it was slated for deletion, pending a vote. I went to the vote page, posted a comment, and by the time I was done, my page was gone.

I'm new here.

If they treat newcomers like this, how do you expect the craze to spread.

My enthusiasm has been snuffed nearly as fast as it was fueled last night when I first discovered Wikipedia.

Even the 'history' is empty.

Here is a copy of the posting, which I saved on my site: sterlingdallan.com/resume/Wikipedia/ (http://www.sterlingdallan.com/resume/Wikipedia/)

What's the big deal about self promotion. An autobiography is one of the most coveted sources of accuracy. It seems asinine to reject a listing because a person wrote it about himself in third person.

This isn't a popularity contest. It's an encyclopedia project. So what if some of the Wikipedia users might not like me or what I stand for, or that they don't like that I wrote the piece about myself.

Yes, I agree it is a bit corny to do that; but you and I know that people do it all the time; and it is entirely acceptable.

What do I do?

This reminds me of my experience several years ago at go.com as an editor. I ran into people who thought they were king of the hill, yet their I.Q. was obviously challenged.

That is one of the reasons why I had thought I would do my new encyclopedia project (http://www.pureenergysystems.com) from the ground up rather than use an existing service such as Wikipedia.

I was told about Wikipedia about a week ago by my brother, and I bookmarked the page. It was last night that I first put time into exploring it, and saw the power of its algorithm.

But again, I am not impressed by what I have seen in the editing. I feel helpless. No appeal. Just zap and gone.

Why waste my energy.

I have devoted nearly my entire day from 5:00 am (Dec. 5) to 1:00 am (Dec. 6) to posting several things to Wikipedia.

That is how motivated I can get.

But then to have that work obliterated without any recourse seems brutal to me.

How can I recommend this protocol to others?

Though the back-end software is awesome, the lack of an appeal reeks.

There ought to be a way to put a listing on "hold" while it is discussed between the user and the community. Give them a chance to change it, perhaps. Give them a chance to present there case.

But delete?

Sheesh. So final, so brutal. So idiotic.

I spend hours composing, and with one press of a button, all that work is gone. Obliterated. It is as mindless as an arsonist who takes a match to a magnificent building.

Because of my experience with go.com, I did make copies of my work. But at this point, I'm thinking, "why even try to post a modification. It will just be the same story over again."

This has got to change.

How hard would it be to program a "hold" feature, as a way to let the user have a chance to state his/her case or to present a modified version?

I know how to write, how to summarize, how to distill, how to organize, and yet this is how I am treated?

I have the potential to be one of your most valuable assets, and yet I am treated like an imbecile.

My press release on the McBurney Super-Carburetor received yet another 25,000 hits today. http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2003/11/prweb89610.htm

I feel like an eagle trying to get along in the chicken coop, where all I look like to them is a strange chicken.

Help me out here. If you have any pull with the admin, please present my case to them.

I would really like to be able to develop a major project via Wikipedia, per my recent posting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Energy_Wikipedia_Control_Panel backed up here: http://www.pureenergysystems.com/encyclopedia/wikipedia/control_panel/archive/031205.htm in case that is deleted.

If there is a way to remove someone's privileges, I think whoever was responsible for deleting my bio page should have their privileges put on "hold" while we have a little discussion.

Do you really not want people like me?

If so, please let me know now, so I can turn my enthusiasm into turning people away from your site with an expose on this situation I just experienced. "Don't waste your time" will be my message.

I can either help you turn Wikipedia into everything it has the potential to be, or I will develop one with my team that will beat yours in the end.

You might be the Yahoo of online encyclopedias, but remember what happened when Google came along.

Do you want me with you or against you?

I am sitting on the crest of a technology revolution, and I can either host it on my site, or on yours.

What's your choice?

I'm pretty ticked off. I was so excited about what I thought you had. But now that excitement has turned to anger.

Bad news travels fast.

I have a large web presence. 90,000 unique visitors per month at GreaterThings.com

Friend, or foe. What's it going to be?

Here are some of my expose sites: http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/ http://www.greaterthings.com/News/NigerianScam/

Both are listed in the Open Directory Project.

go.com went out of business.

I'm going to post this to a couple of other people, just to make sure it gets heard up top your business.

Right now, as of this minute, I'm still promoting your site.

See http://www.greaterthings.com/News/FreeEnergy/newstuff/ http://www.pureenergysystems.com/encyclopedia/ http://www.pureenergysystems.com/newstuff/

I hope your reply will be favorable. I would really like to work with you.

Please respond by email sterlingda@greaterthings.com if you can as I am yet not familiar enough with your site to know where to go to find a reply.

Thanks,

Sterling D. Allan Sterlingda 09:14, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

p.s. After writing the above, in looking at the Wikipedia site some more, I came across a page that talks about the need to "be nice to the newcomer." What happened in my case?

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User:Sterlingda answer to a post on his talk page removed there. Muriel Victoria 10:23, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Renata Scotto

I actually met Renata Scotto once in New York City, when she came into Penn Station late at night and was too scared to budge from her gate due to the presence of creepy-looking people hanging around there. I escorted her to the nearby New Yorker Hotel for her meeting with composer Kevin Pickard. She seemed rather grateful for the attention. --Uncle Ed 20:48, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Can you advise me again? I have no plans to start any new pages in the next couple of days and intend to do some major rewrites on poetry pages I came across that I feel need attention, starting with Ezra Pound. For this one, I left a note on the Talk page, but should I leave a message on the user talk page of people who worked on the article before? Or list it on pages needing attention? Thanks for your help. Hasta la vista. Bmills 12:58, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi, I agree, Ezra Pound needs some work, and you are just the person! I don't think you need to go the trouble of notifying people on their Talk pages. If they are interested in the topic, it will be on their Watchlist. A quick look at the Page history reveals that it has been mostly anon IP users contributing anyway, so they are probably not around. It is always diplomatic to announce big changes like you did in advance, but my guess is that no one will object. Just make sure that when you replace the text with your own using copy & paste (Move this page won't work and anyway has the disadvantage of replacing the Page history), that you indicate clearly in the Summary so that subsequent users will be able to see when your version was introduced. One final very general suggestion: if you encounter a piece of text in an article that you would like to delete, the safest strategy is always to move it to the Talk page with a brief comment so that the author and/or subsequent readers will understand your motivations. In other words, be bold but leave a trail! Suerte, -- Viajero 13:29, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Thanks. In this instance, I'm being very bold. Bmills 13:39, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Hi Viajero,

The pictures that I posted, as far as I could tell, were in the public domain. Is there any way I can update the url I got them from?

Thanks, Sray 07:08, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. If you click on an image here on Wikipedia, you come to a page which has information about that image. You can edit this page like any other. It should contain relevant source and copyright details. Many pictures are on the web, not all are public domain, especially of recent ones of people like Eduard Shevarnadze. If pictures are indeed public domain, it still needs to be indicated explicitly as such on the image page mentioned above. If you have any questions about what constitutes public domain and "fair use", please post a note on Wikipedia_Talk:Image use policy. -- Viajero 09:23, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Thanks. Bmills 12:10, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

One observation: four or five were redirects to the article in the main article namespace. This means you used Move article to put them there. Keep in mind that if you use Move, it will also move the accompanying Page history, including all your previous drafts as well, which you might not want. I would recommend cutting & pasting into a new article to avoid this, as you appear to have done with most of the above. Probably you are already aware of this... Carry on! -- Viajero 12:12, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Yes, I've learned from that mistake. Will always copy and paste from here on in. Bmills 12:15, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Dear Viajero, I can't find the reason for the cura te ipsum thing being redirected into the Latin-only target area. To redirect the wonderful master quote on your own page myself, if you allow me, the Latin-only target area is so desolate... I was adding the physician side of the story, being an MD and happening to see the juice behind this wonderful saying, day in and day out, for twenty years now. Why, in your view, CV deserves a full article and cura te ipsum only a redirect? Afterall, I mean, cura te ipsum is Luke 4:23, you know, as read in the Vulgate... Not quite a POW methinks. Do you want me to add some glossae on Saint Luke the Physician? OK, Deal - if you let my page fly by itself. Let us head to the peace of the brave, in lieu of pax romana! Sine cera - ly Yours, irismeister 22:34, 2003 Nov 26 (UTC)

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Nice work on the Borges page. Seems like thare are a lot of pages on writers that are in need of attention. Bmills 11:52, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Thanks for the link to the article on Chile's "economic miracle" and sorry for not keeping in touch. I've been very inactive on Wiki for the past month, but look forward to coming back now.

BTW, it was great to see that genocidal neo-fascist go down in Guatemala - more good news for Latin America's indigenous population just after Goni was forced to go back to the United States (where he'll fit in better). Hopefully, though, Colom would will win the second round next month.

Also, in case you haven't seen this already, check out Vargas Llosa's troubling comments, which epitomize racism in the Andean region: "Novelist Vargas Llosa Slammed for 'Racist' Remarks" http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/oneworld/20031113/wl_oneworld/4536726731068735285

172 13:09, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Why'd you delete Origin Systems, Inc.? --Mrwojo 14:03, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It is not deleted, just moved to Origin Systems -- Viajero 14:05, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I mean the specific page "Origin Systems, Inc." that is gone, the one that was just a redirect. There were pages that linked to it that would've redirected to its new home. --Mrwojo 14:27, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean; there were two: OSI Ultima, now fixed. There are still a few redirected via Origin Systems Inc but I'll let you fix those ;-) -- Viajero 14:44, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sure thing. :) I'll get around to it eventually. --Mrwojo 15:47, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Dear Viajero, now i'm totally against the linking frenzy! I had to see it with my own eyes in one of "my" creations to realise how ridicule this can get!. Unfortunately linking very much a question of personal opinion. I'm afraid guidelines wont do here: peolple dont have to go by them if they dont want to or if they dont know they exist. We must create a linking awarness club, dedicated to educate our overlinked fellow wikipedians. So i have a sugestion: if that example from war elephant made me see the light perhaps we can organize a List of overlinked articles so people can apreciate themselves our point of view. Cheers, Muriel Victoria 11:26, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)

• About Richard Neustadt, one word comes to my mind: Credo!! Lets just hope people can be "educated" in this matter. By the way, some discussion has been going on in Wikipedia:Brilliant prose and now some Voting is taking place there, about old aditions. Mind to give your opinion? Cheers, Muriel Victoria 15:41, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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Thanks for the welcome. I think allopathy will be ok once Mr.Natural learns about NPOV. - VerbalHerbal

I still think the article has a long way to go. Please take a look at Heroic medicine if you have a moment. It is a most unencyclopedic rant. I am at a loss at where to begin. Best wishes. -- Viajero 21:44, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hmmm. Yes, I get your point. The author seems to be using Wikipedia as a soapbox for his own position and to be uninterested in treating things neutrally. I hope he will eventually get the idea, maybe I will put a link on his page. -- VerbalHerbal

Thanks again, and yes, my newness is perhaps-somewhat-less-than-entire :). I'm happy that you started cleaning up the POV messiness - it's a discouraging task and I'm glad if my meagre assistance makes you feel less lonely! It was only your participation that encouraged me to wade into it :) - VerbalHerbal 23:59, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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I had never heard of Paul Bon before and found the article very interesting. Just found a few minor typos. Also fixed typos in my own articles, some of which were very embarrasing. Glad you liked Irish poetry, I was amazed to find it on Wikipedia:Brilliant prose, having read a lot of history and science articles that are a lot better. I have mainly been doing biographies of writers, many of these you have helped improve. No I'm working on User:Bmills/Irish theatre as a kind of compaion to the poetry page and deriving from work I did on Irish literature. As you said, a lot to be done on 'high culture' wikipedia. I am amazed at how bad some of the writing on literature is. Very disappointing some of it. The Gary Snyder and the Ezra Pound articles were just disjointed lists of facts, not that my rewrites are perfect. Bmills 09:04, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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Re: Dutch disease etc. Thanks for your edit to that. I don't have my reference book of English slang with me so will have to check the etymologies of them when I get home. I _think_ that there may be another meaning of Dutch disease meaning a sexually transmitted disease. I did collate national insults in English a while ago. I need to dig out my notes. Secretlondon 15:11, Dec 1, 2003 (UTC)

Ok, but surely "Dutch Door" is likewise unrelated to the War. It is just an construction detail -- or not? -- Viajero 15:13, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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I humbly apologize for bloating the history. I think we may be prioritizing differently. I see the nuclear accident list as a special case. Yes, I do agree that it's good practice to edit off-line, but the third(!) time the community overwrote my very large off-line edit, I realized that the nuclear accident list was going to have high traffic for a while. What's more, many of the new items were those lovely odd little bits of data that come from the Wikipedia's eclectic set of users.

In the case of a list of nuclear accidents, I would then have to drop in a large list of items. This would either disorder the list (it's sorted by date) or overwrite some-one else's contributions, which seems ruder to me than running up a long list of history.

So, I promise to be good in my other posts. Ok? (Please forgive me??)

Another topic-- I added a reference from "list of disasters" next to the "nuclear disasters"; If you can think of any other way to link to the nuclear accidents list, the list would become more useful.

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Yes, indeed the server is working hard, but during a low-usage time. (Peaks are evenings in Europe, U.S. East and West coasts). I'm saving the incidents individually so that they don't get lost in someone else's updates. My list of incidents is entered now, so I'll be backing off. Thanks for caring.

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You might look at the other stuff that user has created. Might be candidates for quick deletion. Alexandros

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About MrNH: nevermind! he's not going to listen anyway. Comparing to him, Wik is the paradigm of social skills (i like Wik, btw)! And there was some action in your talk page earlier today. I removed a few statements by sterling to his talk page. Maybe you should have a look in the history, to see if you want to restore some. About the usurpers, i think its nice too :) Cheers, Muriel Victoria

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User:Stan Shebs/Grove Sample is an interesting random sample, eh? Gives a sense of the ratio of done articles, and kinds that are done. I'd do more, but I bet people would get anxious about copyright, even if it is only a list... Stan 00:20, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Indeed, fascinating although daunting! It made me feel better to have made it slightly less red. (encountered BTW it via a What links here). Wish I had access to Grove, but very $$$. -- Viajero 00:25, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Those were from the 1-volume, which has about 1/2 as many articles, and they're greatly shortened - I compared a couple the last time I visited university library, which has the big version. A tricksy way to deal with access would be to use library terminals to log in to WP, work from the big books there since you usually can't check them out. Stan 03:47, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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Hola! Glad you liked the comment. I think it just fair to say it, because we are far too used to take what appear in "scientific" journals as the true reliable definitive and perfect truth, and just thinking of psychiatrists and for example electroshock gives me the creeps! Pfortuny 22:46, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Letter moved to: Talk:Zviad Gamsakhurdia