User talk:Aramgutang
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Dear Aramgutang
I am trying to get an idea what do you have in common with User:Tabib, playing role of Armenian guy at the same time. I get a feeling that there is something here that I don't quite understand. First of all, do you really speak Russian? Second, why you choose so obscure and anti-Armenian user name? Rovoam 22:39, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- I don't think I have much in common with Tabib, and I disagree with most of his beliefs and contributions to Wikipedia. However, I do believe in Wikipedia's NPOV policy and that "history is a lie agreed upon" (--Voltaire), and thus that arguments should always be presented in the form of "this is what these people believe happened and this is what these other people believe is true" on Wikipedia, avoiding concrete statements of fact about any past event. Also, I am not "playing the role" of an Armenian guy, I am in fact Armenian, born and raised in Yerevan, thus I could (and still can) speak Russian in addition to Armenian from a very early age. Since my real name is Aram, a common Armenian name, I find the username Aramgutang to be a funny combination of my name and the word "orangutang". --Aramգուտանգ 00:15, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- It sounds like it really does not matter much to you if history facts would be told based on Tabib's writings and not on Strabo, Plinius Secundos, Clavdius Ptolemeus writings... But... why referencing the above mentioned history sources should be prohibeted? Do Strabo, Plinius Secundos, Clavdius Ptolemeus support pro-Armenian point of view?
- Why should we allow Tabib to present Azeri point of view and call it NPOV, not even trying to say that there are also other points of view, which are based on well known historical facts?
- Should Wikipedia become Azeripedia or even Turkipedia? Is Wikipedia a good place for promoting Turkic and anti-Armenian propaganda? Is this what you call NPOV?
- From what you just stated above, I understand that because the "history is a lie agreed upon", we don't have to try to do any historical research at all, and Azeri lie is the best lie ever. If your statement is true, what are you doing here, in Wikipedia? Don't you think you simply waste your time? I thought, we are here to learn something new and to share our knowledge with others. I don't mind excepting any truth (Arminian or non-Armenian), but I don't want lie, especially as a part of someone's propaganda (which has been created in purpose)!
- Regards, Rovoam 01:01, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- You have to understand that I know very little about history, and it was never a subject that interested me. Thus I would have a hard time debating about historical facts, and I generally prefer not to get involved in things I know nothing about. I prefer to contribute to Armenian bias in Wikipedia constructively by writing articles about places in Armenia or important Armenians, rather than arguing endlessly with Turks or Azeris trying to push their agenda. Again, it's not that I agree with their version of history, it's that I don't know or care enough about history to argue with them. --Aramգուտանգ 14:47, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Photos
I have a few photos of Armenia. I can't believe it, but I don't have one of Khor Virap (I have a picture of a bad view from it.) I added a photo of a little model of the monastery I have.
I will look through my collection to find photos of other places and landmarks and get back to you. Dmn / Դմն 16:51, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have just returned from my trip from Armenia and now I'm writing some articles about it into Slovenian (sl:) Wikipedia. Among other photos I also have a few from Khor Virap (not very successful, though, and the Ararat was not visible through clouds) but unfortunately at Geghard my camera's batteries emptied so if you are ready to share at least one with me. Otherwise thanks for correcting my contribution to Mer Hayrenik (obviously I do not speak Armenian). If you manage to find any errors at the Armenian alphabet at sl:Armenščina (I prepared it just before traveling there) feel free to drop remarks at its discussion ("pogovor") page. Maybe I can ask you about one detail about the alphabet I'm not quite sure about. If somebody doesn't do it with better photos I will add mine to your Armenian landmarks articles ASAP.
BTW for some other purposes I also "composed" a character converting script and it's usable for Wikipedia, too. It is available here (http://members.lycos.co.uk/forumchars/main.html) and you also have "keyboards" with many European (and Armenian, too) languages characters. PHP source code is available upon request. --Fpga 07:26, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Oh, yes I also added some non religious facts to your Sanahin article. --Fpga 07:30, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Just uploaded my photos to Khor Virap. However I have no idea about their layout... --Fpga 09:36, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I'm afraid that what I wrote under Lake Sevan in Armenian script is actually a town, not the lake. So if you can take a second and check this out... What about words containing 'և', is this letter replaced by 'եվ' in Western Armenian? Unfortunately I don't have any photos from Geghard as my camera batteries were empty while being there :-( --Fpga 06:25, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I'm writing an article (with photos) about Odzun, a well known church just above Alaverdi, and I don't know how to write it in Armenian script. Probably it can't start with 'Ո' as in that case it would probably be "Vodzun" while the letter 'Օ' is probably younger than the church and reserved for the words of foreign origin. --Fpga 09:16, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Is Lake Sevan in Armenian written as Սեվանի լիչ (western) and Սևանի լիչ (eastern) or should չ be replaced by ճ? BTW, Odzun is finnished from my side. --Fpga 11:01, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I don't iknow if you have noticed my article about a khachkar which is probably the last one with my photos from Armenia. Maybe it would be interesting to write the word in Armenian script (2 possible letters for 'ch', 'k' and 'r' give 2^3=8 possible combinations) and if you have any objections against its transliteration into English (or anything else inside the article), please let me know about it so that I can update Slovenian article. --Fpga 12:41, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Unicode conversion
With regards to your Unicode conversion script: I don’t see the need for it. All current browsers I know of will already convert characters outside of the webpage’s encoding into numeric references. Am I missing something here, or is this only intended for really archaic webbrowsers of the Mosaic generation, such as Netscape (pre-Mozilla) and MSIE≤4 ? [[User:Anrion|Missing image
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] 09:29, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- I understand now: I meant that if I type the actual characters (e.g. Какой-нибудь текст в Кириллице), if the page encoding does not support it (and then no matter what encoding is used), it will be changed into numeric references. I was not talking about typing e.g. - and then relying on the encoding magic to transcribe them into Russian. I now understand what you would use your script for — but as I generally type the characters directly it is not something I’d ever need. Thanks for clarifying! [[User:Anrion|Missing image
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] 21:46, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Yerevan's population
Hi, I used this page (http://www.world-gazetteer.com/d/d_am_ye.htm). By the way, do you know what the red portion here (http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/7/70/ArmeniaYerevan.png) represents? Is it only the city of Yerevan or is it some kind of a municipality or a province? --webkid 21:14, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks, I responded on your talk page. --Aramgutang 22:18, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
U.S. embargo against Cuba
You voted for U.S. embargo against Cuba, this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article.
Armeniapedia
Hi Aram, I thought you'd find it interesting that an Armenian focus wiki has been started called www.armeniapedia.org - it is not officially announced yet, just being quietly worked on, but it is almost fully functional. -Raffi
Alla
Alla Pugacheva done .LOL:) Vorash 00:56, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Armenian-language Wikipedia
Hi Aramgutang,
I just thought you might be interested in knowing that an Armenian version of Wikipedia also exists.
It doesn't have much content yet at all, but it could use some help from somebody like you... http://hy.wikipedia.org/
Nagorno-Karabakh
Hi, I see you've edited the Nagorno-Karabakh article. There is a fierce dispute over the contents of this page right now and I have coaxed the disputants over to the talk page and am attempting to get them to work together. They have begun working together (a little). I am serving as an unlicensed mediator. The ground rules I set in order to get them to stop reverting each other were that I would lock down the main page and perform any agreed-to edits; so far there have been no agreements — and both parties are preparing their own versions in their user space. The only changes I have made so far to the article are the removal of the contentious bits. My 'lock-down' and authority in this matter is, of course, entirely a bluff. If you visit Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh, you'll find my rules — one of which is a promise to recuse myself upon request; anyone's request. This whole process has been brought to a fair number of people's attention and I've gotten no requests yet, so I infer a tacit approval.
I'm going to have to revert your changes in order to maintain my arrangement with the disputants. I promise that I will get your changes into the article again (I'm aware of quite a number of short comings to the current placeholder page). I would really welcome your participation on the talk pages (pages is more accurate; it's 180K and counting). Thanks for your understanding and sorry, really sorry, about the revert. — Davenbelle 14:21, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
- Thank you for your understanding; I have proposed to the disputants that they agree to your change: Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh#Aramgutang's_edit. I'm really rather glad this has come up as something is needed to move things along, and I do understand your reluctance to get drawn into their 60 page discussion. I am not well versed in the issues they are delving into, however I continue to find this interesting. Tabib invited me into this debate to offer a third-party opinion — presumably because I edited the N-K page a few times last month to clean-up the infobox (diff (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nagorno-Karabakh&diff=9338844&oldid=9331133), plus a few further adjustments). I had noted your earlier contributions and was considering dropping you an invite. I will, of course, take you up on your offer of assistance with specific issues that may come up. Thanks again, Davenbelle 21:53, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
Nagorno Karabakh Republic - New Version of the Article
Dear Aramgutang:
I need your help. Could you please check my new version of the article: User:Rovoam/Nagorno Karabakh Republic and express your opinion?
Thank you Rovoam 19:47, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Nagorno-Karabakh
I suggest myself as a candidate to mediate the article. I already made my initial assesments. --Cool Cat My Talk 08:16, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
You are welcome to point out what you have your resrevations for in the article. Thanks.
Armenia
Good timing; I was just looking at all the POV pushing in the Armenia article; I was thinking that most of the last week's 'contribs' needed removal (I will leave it as your call.) — Davenbelle 01:05, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
Czech(ia)-geo-stubs
Hi Aramgutang - you wrote: I would like to suggest that the Czechia-geo-stub be unprotected, because even if the edit war continues and escalates, it will not affect the readers looking at the articles with the stub message a great deal. The current protected message box is big and unsightly and may lead readers to think that the article itself is protected. What's even worse, the talk page link in the message box points to the article's talk page, instead of the template's talk page.
The protection message should have been on the template's talk page (where it is now). What the reader sees is irrelevant as far as stub templates and categorisation are concerned. Repeated changing of stub categories requires a lot of work from stub sorters. For every edit that is being made by NoPuzzleStranger and (his probable sockpuppet) Starky to change a stub category, 101 are currently required by stub sorters to revert it, since every article in the category requires a null-edit to move it to the correct categorisation. For that reason the protection is necessary - stub sorters are overworked enough without having to perform massive extra duties every time a stub template is moved. Grutness|hello? Missing image
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02:50, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Call for cooperation over Nagorno-Karabakh
Hi Aram,
Today Rovoam vandalized the N-K page again. He disappeared for a while after his username and some of the IPs he operated under were blocked. I had a little hope that he's gone for good, but unfortunately, this wasn't the case. I am afraid that this person, even if blocked, will return from time to time and acting under various IPs will vandalize the N-K page. I will revert all his vandalisms (be it explicit or implicit) and I know that many other editors will do the same, as they did before.
The page version which is in place is certainly not that bad in terms of neutrality and accuracy, although it certainly needs further improvement. And we both agreed on this important point. If the current content, despite all of its deficiencies, is generally acceptable to both you and me, then I believe there can be only two reasons why the current version is not acceptable to Rovoam: 1) he wants the page to reflect one-sided nationalist propaganda, and/or 2) he vandalizes the page simply out of feeling of revenge and personal enmity against me. Most probably both factors are applicable.
Aram, I want to suggest you cooperation over Nagorno-Karabakh page. Lets join our efforts to protect Nagorno-Karabakh page from nationalist propaganda and vandalism (whether from Azeri or Armenian or even neutrall sides) and also to improve it further to reflect both viewpoints equally and accurately. Certainly this doesn't mean that we will ignore third party opinions, but I believe if we can achieve a consensus between ourselves, then third parties will support our decision too.
I am being completely serious and sincere, this is no April day joke. I believe we, you and me, need no mediators for that. The only thing we need to deal with this problem is good will, deferential attitude and honest conduct. In my opinion, all other differences can be solved provided these preconditions exist. (btw, I believe same is true for wider Karabakh conflict). I have seen all these qualities in you during our previous discussions in Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh. That;s why I believe we can come into terms with you and not with Rovoam.
Rovoam knew history well, but he was not honest and constantly manipulated with facts and opinions. If not these intentions he would be very useful for Wikipedia. On the other hand, I know you are not a historian, and may not have enough knowledge of the issue. I realize that this may be a disadvantage for you and perhaps even a deterring factor for you to accept my suggestion, but still I believe, you can detect truth from lie and differentiate between NPOV and POV. Also if needed, you may conduct a small research on some points which you deem contentious and learn both viewpoints on that particular point. On my turn, I would gladly help you with anything I can, for example by providing links to various pro-Armenian and pro-Azeri online sources on history, politics etc. concerning the conflict.
Certainly, we both have our personal views, I have my own biases, of which I may or may not be aware of. For example my views regarding history of Azerbaijan, Armenia, Armenian-Azeri conflict, Armenian genocide etc. may drastically differ from yours or many others views. And this is normal and should be treated as such. Every person has his own personal views, beliefs and biases. But, in my view, what is more important is not to become a prisoner of ones own biases, to remain open for outside ideas and finally, to be honest in ones actions. I havent seen these qualities in Rovoam, who played every possible and impossible trick to push for his bias and discredit me. But I have seen all these qualities in you. Thats why I trust you and call for your cooperation.
If interested, please, write me at tabibhus(at)gmail(dot)com. We can also discuss how to proceed further in the talkpage. For example, please, let me know what would you add/remove/change in the page. Maybe we can even incorporate some of Rovoams earlier edits mentioning authors of antiquity, perhaps this may calm him down a bit... Hope to hear from you.--Tabib 13:03, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
- Hi Aram. Thanks for your reply. I've sent you an email, hope you'll get it. Good luck with midterm exams.--Tabib 13:25, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
- Ok, agreed then, we'll proceed in talkpages. I hope you wouldn't mind me also dropping you emails from time to time ;-). Thus, Talk:N-K/Aram&Tabib (or any other name) or User talk:../N-K could be the options to consider. When you have time, please create a subsection you prefer and let me know. Aram, I also want to say once again that it may not be an easy task for us, we may disagree on many issues, we may dispute, but I am confident that we can solve all our differences through deferential and honest conduct of discussions and we'll find mutually acceptable formulations on each contentious issue. I really do believe this. Best wishes. --Tabib 05:11, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)
Re:Commons Photos
've noticed that you've been uploading pretty much all of your images to Wikipedia, rather than Wikimedia Commons. Please consider uploading them to the latter instead, since that is the method now recommended by Wikipedia, it avoids redundant image copies on different language servers, and provides an appropriate context for a large amount of pictures on the same topic (thus avoiding "additional photos" sections, such as the one in Blackberry). Oh, and great job with all the photos, keep it up! --Aramգուտանգ 12:28, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Is there any particular reason why Wikipedia is recommending uploading to the commons? And how exactly does it provide an appropriate context for a large amount of pictures on the same topic (do you have any examples?).
- Do you think its a bad idea having "additional photos"?
- When you insert an image from the commons to a page in the English Wikipedia, do you still use the "Image:Image.jpg|thumb]]" format?
- The main reason I don't particularly want to change over to the commons is because when you click on an image you only see the image. To see the description you have to rederict to the commons page.
- --Fir0002 23:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hawaiian Baby Woodrose
Aramgutang- i think your work on the Hawaiian baby woodrose entry has been great. As you can see, i've organized everything in the hallucinogens category into their respective sub-categories to make it a bit more specific and reduce clutter. Hawaiian Baby Woodrose is already in the hallucinogens category by virtue of it's being in the Lysergamides category, a sub-category of hallucinogens; general policy is to not have an item in both a higher category and a sub-category . I do, however, think that it should be in the entheogens category as well as lysergamides. thanks! --Heah 04:49, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- responded on User talk:Heah#Hawaiian baby woodrose --Aramգուտանգ 05:07, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Sorry about the repeat. "are all lysergamides necessarily hallucinogens?" is something i've been taking into account, and over the next few days am going to add another category for most of those, eg, a hallucinogenic tryptamines category as a subcategory of both tryptamines and hallucinogens, with the tryptamines category no longer a sub-category of hallucinogens. But i haven't quite gotten to it yet. thanks. --Heah 05:12, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Wikicommons FPC
Hi aramgutang, I was trying to nominate some pictures for the commons FPC, but I found that the nomination would keep disapperaing. Any ideas as to what might be happening? I think it has something to do with "#.5B.5B:" being in all the other nominations --Fir0002 11:12, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
Commons photos
Hi Aramgutang, A couple of photos I've uploaded to the Commons have the same file name as those in the en.wikipedia, and when i try to insert them the en.wikipedia photos are used. Short of reuploading the photos (a real pain for me - slow internet connection) is there any way to specify that the photo is coming from the commons? Thanks --Fir0002 09:42, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
Re:Dropping a note
Hi Aram,
Glad to hear from you and congrats with your graduation. I completely understand your situation, I myself am very busy at work these days and in the coming month as well, so I dont have much time left for Wikipedia. Unfortunately, this is the time, when various sorts of vandals (esp. Rovoam and perhaps, that banned Baku Ibne/LIGerasimova and since recently, User:Pantherarosa) start attacking me again, erroneously thinking that by such malicious acts they can get me down.
I believe the N-K entry has become rather objective and factually correct. All these discussions/disputes have actually helped the development of this entry. Certainly, it doesn't mean that we cannot improve it even further by adding new info and working out on new formulations. I do not think that one can seriously think that Rovoam can contribute to Wikipedia. Frankly, after seeing all his actions, I genuinely think, this person is not quite mentally healthy. But, in any case, in case you have some time and willingness, please, visit Nagorno-Karabakh/Temp. This has been set by Tony for users to introduce changes they prefer and discuss them in advance before making edits. So, I would suggest you using that too for your edits. My best. I am really glad that I have at least one Armenian counterpart with whom I have normal relationships ;-)--Tabib 13:42, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
Moves / copies
Thanks for the advice on this. Will bear it in mind for the future. All the best. Is this the correct way to message another user btw? - StevePreddy 18:18, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)