Talk:History of anti-Semitism/archive2

• (Moved from section the Poles vs. the Danes)

In the light of the comment by User:Cautious above (NOTE. The "above" is now out of context. See history to view how User:Cautious butchered this page --Humus sapiens|Talk 19:58, 19 May 2004 (UTC)), I find it quite fascinating that he added: 1944, March 24 The tragedy in Markowa happenned. --Humus sapiens|Talk 22:19, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Your personal problem lies in black and white perception of the world. You must accept that there were people in history, who were not friendly toward Jews, but not motivated by Anti-Semitism. In this light this article is simply nonsense. Anti-Semitism should be clearly defined and attributed to racist ideology. Cautious 18:03, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Anything better than personal attack please. Anything on the subject? Racism is only one of many dimensions of A-S. There are many more, learn from the corresponding article, it is educational. --Humus sapiens|Talk 18:19, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

I would agree on the article on condition that is renamed. I propose Unfortunate history of Jews. This is exactly what is the article about. Waiting for other proposals. Cautious 14:17, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

I am against this loony POV "proposal". Jewish history is not defined by A-S. --Humus sapiens|Talk 19:58, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

What is about History of animosity against Jews? Cautious 09:05, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

It's the same. You have to learn, instead of demonstrating again your ignorance about the basics. BTW, what facts exactly are being contested here? --Humus sapiens|Talk 06:35, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

I am not talking about facts, since nobody is able to analyze huge material. Most of the staff before 1870 has nothing to do with AS. It was pretty normal in Middle Ages, that somebody was slaughtered. Do you know what was an avarage behaviour of any army in the foreign country or how religious minorities were treated? If you want, we can review period after period and I will tell you, what doesn't fit in History of AS. Do you like this solution? Cautious 08:03, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

Welcome to wikipedia. FYI, this is not MY article. I suggest again, take some time and get familiar with the basics. So far you showed very little knowledge of the subject and lots of arrogance. Good luck. --Humus sapiens|Talk 08:49, 24 May 2004

(UTC)

Not much left after 4 second scrutiny. Where is your AS hidden? Please rename the article Bad events in history of Jews. Cautious 09:34, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

You misunderstand the basics: Anti-Semitism is the hatred and persecution of Jews as a group; not the hatred of persons who happen to be Jews, but rather the hatred of persons because they are Jews. It doesn't matter where it comes from: religious intolerance, political convenience, financial gain, economic competition, imperialism, socialism, the lack of "concept of martyrdom", etc. The process is the same: justify the hostility - ostracize - dehumanize - get rid of. The national-socialists could also claim "simply ignorance" or "only following the orders". These are mere excuses, what matters is the end result: hatred-motivated expulsions, pogroms and mass murder. --Humus sapiens|Talk 23:04, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

The same steps were repeated during mass and especially state-orchestrated persecutions of Blacks, Gays, Gypsies, Christians in Muslim lands (Armenian genocide and more), Kosovo, Rwanda, etc. Time to turn this shameful history page, instead of looking for excuses. --Humus sapiens|Talk 01:54, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

I found that you write at ease the round sentenced. Please prove in every individual case, that listed above events had something todo with AS. Can you prove that the Romans were worse against Jews then against Gauls, for example? You cannot close any history page based on false statements. I guess you are coming from SU, you must learned by now. Cautious 08:29, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. All the above are HISTORICAL FACTS, no matter what you or I will say today. If historic events satisfy some condition (such as definition of AS, or of classical music, etc), their development can & should be researched, analyzed, etc. Jews traditionally had high rate of literacy and were good at documenting history. You want to start a page about anti-Gaulism, go ahead. This page is about AS, so your attempts to switch to personalities or "Romans vs. Gauls" are offtopic. --Humus sapiens|Talk 17:59, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

In the header is written: "Here we note significant events in the history of anti-Semitism: as well as important anti-Semitic actions, we also give events in the history of anti-Semitic thought, actions taken to combat or relieve the effects of anti-Semitism, and events that affected the prevalence of anti-Semitism in later years." The problem is that absolut majority of events described in the article has nothing to do with anti-Semitism as I proved above on the small piece. The fact that Jews are traditionally good at documenting history ( but also are known for kind of reasoning that mostly covers the problem instead of solving it ) has nothing to do with writing biased encyclopedia articles. Cautious 21:42, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Reread my text. You have proven nothing but lack of logic and decency. This your phrase: "Jews... are known for kind of reasoning that mostly covers the problem instead of solving it" is Antisemitism. Even if some were, accusing the entire people is racism. Moreover, you blame Jews - not their persecutors - for not "solving" "the problem" of antisemitism. --Humus sapiens|Talk 22:09, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Your answer lacks logic. Have you ever heard about scholastic or talmudic reasononing? You are simply out of any reasonable points. The article is timeline of the selected events from the history of Jews. Cautious 22:16, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

I do not see your comments as related to our dispute. You haven't proved that the events I evaluated were related to anti-Semitism. They need to go and the history should focus on the history of anti-Semitism, starting in the second half of 19th century. In addition your comments about my person are complete nonsense and make you look hilarious. Cautious 22:36, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

I was asked for comments. I think that continuation of that personal discussion should stop (I am going to remove them to Archive) and we should focus on review of the listed entries in order to find out, what is their relations with the topic. Eon 22:39, 26 May 2004 (UTC) --- IMO attacks against Jews falls in 3 cathegories : 1. Anti-Semitism - as is its definition "hated of Jews as a group, religious or ethnic". 2. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time - as in "I want your land/money/people(as slaves)". This is NOT Anti-Semitism as the attacker didn't care of what religion or ethnicity was the target. 3. Fake Anti-Semitism - this is #2 useing #1 as an excuse (to give a moral excuse or just to increase the morale of the troops). MihaiC Jun 1st 2004

Kazimierz

I changed the paragraph a little bit. It suggested that there was some hidden agenda behind Krakow and Kazimierz staying as separate cities. IRL, the two main problems that stood in the way were lower taxes in the Kazimierz (the Jews would have to pay much higher taxes if they joined Krakow) and the Vistula river. It wasn't until 19th century when the river was regulated and moved. Until then, the river was wild and ran just in between the two towns. Halibutt 20:47, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

I removed that enry. Objections? --Humus sapiens|Talk 21:34, 24 May 2004 (UTC)