Talk:Goddess
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Shan, I've removed your signature--no offense, I hope. We have long since stopped signing Wikipedia articles. A few of us did in the first few months, but it's long become clear that, in a collaborative environment, signing an article tends to make people less likely to contribute to an article. --LMS
Lawrence that's fine. I thought I saw some comment in intro text that we could sign or not optionally. If it is true memory and not mistake from learning curve, and I come across it again I'll let you know so it can be deleted as out of date. Shan Jayran
Oy, yes, we need to delete that. --LMS
I don't understand this passage, I think it needs to be cleared up, or perhaps deleted.
"While most societies have goddesses, if not now not long ago, it is Western societies that have most obviously taken Goddess devotion and forged with it both a resting place and a battle ground of gender. Women and men alike look to Goddess to heal the lack of power they feel and create a new way of being spiritual. This is a spirituality not of either/or, but of both/and, so that body becomes sacred in both menstrual and seminal ways, and heaven is crafted here in an inevitably changing, unstable earth, rather than glimpsed far away somewhere else as an absolute. (cf. creation spirituality) "
- The first centence refers to which time period? Now? If anyone can specify this?
- The second centence seems to me to refer to wicca, in its modern variety. Is this meant or if not, can it be clarified?
- The third sentence seems too general to me. It suggests that what is there is true for all Goddess-worship, while it seems to me to be known for more modern versions (wicca again).
kh7 06:54 Apr 4, 2003 (UTC)
The first half of the article discusses some kind of neo 'Goddessing' concept, seemingly labelling it as a distinct belief set or philosophy but neglecting to define it or demarcate it with historical discussion of goddess(es). IMHO the whole top of this page should be completely rewritten, the lower part should be mostly moved to Pagan and simply paragraphed with a link. --prat
- Just to clarify, does anyone know the background that most of the top half of the page comes from? If we can't find it, I say we chop it. --prat
This article is quite POV and I've spent awhile trying to balance it out somewhat with alternative views. —Ashley Y 13:46, Nov 15, 2003 (UTC)
- I agree. This article needs a major rewrite, a reworking into something less like a thealogian's exposition of principles and more like an encyclopedia article: it needs to be just a bit more dispassionate and neutral in tone. --Mirv 07:00, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- I despair of editing this. In the end I can only add my own (quite contrary) POV to its POV, which NPOV does not quite make. —Ashley Y 01:29, Feb 1, 2004 (UTC)
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Problems
This article is rife with problems. It not only promotes misconceptions and ideological fallacies about Hinduism, but it completely misreads worldwide Goddess culture by seeing it as some new-fangled Euro-American cult without considering the major influence of long-standing traditions in India and elsewhere. The author(s) were limited by not knowing any sort of theological nomenclature outside of 'monotheism' and 'polytheism' and thus gave horribly inaccurate descriptions of Hindu goddess worship. Also, proper terminology and better knowledge of the history of Hindu goddess worship, which is really the only major goddess religion of many years, would inform the seemingly 'new' ones coming up in the new-age goddess worship culture so popular in the states. I don't know whether I will or won't dedicate time to this page, but misconceptions I will try to work on, as I have begun a bit today. --LordSuryaofShropshire 14:35, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)
- I agree with most of this. But could we remove the Hinduism link block? I certainly think the Hinduism sections are helpful, but at the same time, this article should not be just a piece in the Hindu puzzle. —Ashley Y 04:54, 2004 Jun 20 (UTC)
- Absolutely... I don't remember putting in the Hinduism message link board thinggy (what the heck is it called!?) and it shouldn't be there.... frankly, I feel that since Hinduism is the only major extant religion with heavy Goddess worship, it's important, but is amply dealt with in Devi (which means Goddess). So, references are vital, especially since most Wiccan and 'neo-pagan' rituals are often derived from Hindu Tantric and devotional practice. --LordSuryaofShropshire 05:20, Jun 20, 2004 (UTC)
Reorg?
I'm thinking this should be reorganised something along these lines:
- (intro)
- Hinduism
- Judaism & Christianity
- Neopaganism & the Goddess movement
...and where other cultures can be added in (Shinto for instance). —Ashley Y 09:49, 2004 Jun 21 (UTC)
- That's a good idea, though I would say that cultures like Christianity and Judaism, whose "goddess" culture isn't really tenable aside from some marginalized Mother Mary sects (such as the Fatima in Portugal), should come towards the end. I mean, Hinduism, Shintoism, and the BUddhist 'Tara' (and its connection with the Tara of earlier Hindu culture), and of course greek and Roman cultures, plus current views on modern goddess worship, such as Gnostics, Hindus, Shintos, and the New-agers/Wiccas... --LordSuryaofShropshire 16:55, Jun 21, 2004 (UTC)
OK, I've reorganised it, but it still needs work. I think "Neopaganism" and "the Goddess movement" sections need to be merged. —Ashley Y 10:14, 2004 Jul 9 (UTC)
Split?
I'm thinking maybe we have two articles here, one about goddesses (including any monotheistic Goddess) in all cultures, and one about the Goddess movement in the West. Perhaps this article should be split? —Ashley Y 06:04, 2004 Oct 16 (UTC)
OK, I've done this. Sections still might need to be moved around, but I'm hoping this will make overall editing and so on a bit more tractable. —Ashley Y 04:10, 2004 Oct 21 (UTC)
Satanic Verses
Pre-Islamic Arabia, and indeed in parts of Persia, there was dozens, if not hundreds of Goddesses. This Sub-Sectin does not deal with these Goddesses, but with 3 mentioned in the 'Satanic Veses', and about the novel by Salman Rushdie with the same name. The Section was, thus, poorly names, and I renamed it. --195.7.55.146 12:38, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I see. But clearly the scope of the paragraph is wider, and more goddesses should be added, or at least the fact that there were more should be explained. Don't change the title, fix the paragraph! dab (ᛏ) 14:21, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I don't think people currently associate the term godess with female deity. All males I know think godess refers to Britney, Beyonce, Basinger, Bundhen or Kidman (not mention Elle the Body). No one cares a damn about feminist whinings against no priesthood for chicks.