Talk:East Timor
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An event mentioned in this article is an August 30 selected anniversary.
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Culture: Poetry
What are "crouds"? Is it meant to be "crowds"?
Status of Malay-Indonesian and English in East Timor
this articles gives way too much importance to malay and English. That are used for communitation between People because many people speak Indonesian, while only some speak Portuguese or Tetum, what is greatly changing. And being working language for communication betweeen people that speak several languages it doesnt give any status to Malay or English has the article is trying to give.
- REPÚBLICA DEMOCRÁTICA DE TIMOR-LESTE
- GOVERNO
____________________
- Decreto n.o 1 /2004
- de 14 de Abril
- Artigo 3.º
- Âmbito de implementação
- 1. O Padrão Ortográfico de Tétum Oficial deve ser seguido no sistema geral de educação, nas publicações oficiais e na comunicação social.
- 2. Deve ser dada prioridade ao uso do Tétum Oficial e do português na iconografia e sinalização públicas.
- 3. O inglês e o malaio-indonésio como simples línguas de trabalho, não devem ser utilizados na iconografia e sinalização públicas a menos que acompanhados de textos em tétum e português com visível proeminência.
- translation
- Democratic Republic of East Timor
- Government
- decree nº1 2004
- April 14
- 3rd Article
- Implementation
- 1. (...)
2. It should be given priority to the use of Oficial Tetum and Portuguese in the iconography and public signalling 3. English and Indonesian-Malay has simple working languages, should not be used in the iconography and public signalling unless they are accompanied by texts in Tetum and Portuguese with visible proeminence.
- INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE LINGUÍSTICA [1] (http://www.shlrc.mq.edu.au/~leccles/investport.html)
- Requisitos previstos na Política de Língua do Estado
O seu plano-projecto deverá também ter em conta os seguintes aspectos: (a) A língua malaia-indonésia e o inglês não possuem qualquer estatuto em Timor Leste, pelo que não são consideradas fundamentais para a cultura nacional; (b) O ensino do inglês como língua estrangeira, embora encorajado dentro de determinados limites, não é uma prioridade da política educativa do governo, que procura restaurar e promover línguas de importância nacional, anteriormente reprimidas e colocadas em perigo. Como tal, o ensino do inglês e do indonésio não será autorizado a competir com ou a sobrepor-se ao ensino do português e do tétum.
Parte-se do princípio que os concorrentes possuem competência linguística em português, e preferencialmente em tétum, assim como outra língua de trabalho relevante. Estes requisitos supõem também a conversação fluente em tétum e/ou português.
- translation
- National Institute of Linguistics
- ... state language policy
(...)
- a) the Indonesian-Malay language and English have any status in East Timor, thus they are not considered fundamental to the national culture;
- b) The teaching of English has a foreign language, is backed within certain limits, it is not a priority of the educational policy of the government, which searches to restore and promote languages with nationwide importance, which were repressed in the past and became endangered. therefore, the teaching of English and Indonesian is not authorized to compete with or overlap to the teaching of Portuguese and Tetum.
(...)
- English and Indonesian are defined in
- PART VII
- FINAL AND TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS (East Timor Constitution) [2] (http://www.gov.east-timor.org/constitution/constitution-Timor-Leste.pdf)
....
It was I believe the second time I've correct the country from which East Timor gained independence. And now this... I was hoping that someone would correct it but noone did nor the language nether the history nor the overimportance of the working languages. Nether the very recent problems between the Church and the government has a paragraph in here...
new studies say that the number of Portuguese speakers more than doubled in the last 5 yrs (today 25% of the population speak it) due to it being repressed in the past it is popular and due to Portuguese-Brazilian cooperation. You can read that in the International Portuguese Language Institute website: [3] (http://www.iilp-cplp.cv/historiaLingua.html) -Pedro 01:32, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
earthquake
The paragraph beginning with "A major earthquake..." in the introduction doesn't seem to fit the content of an encyclopedia article. Wouldn't information like this more rather go under a "recent events" heading rather than the article introduction? -MadmanNova 08:11, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Agreed - I'm going to remove it entirely. I think it's a pretty minor event, really, and doesn't belong in the article about the entire country. CDC (talk) 16:23, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
deleted
Deleted this nonsense: "To this day, East Timor is a struggling new democracy, only America's prayers and help may serve this nation. The UN should not get involved." Bizud 12:31, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
CIA World Factbook
Will the page be replaced when East Timor has an entry in the CIA World Factbook?
- Effected. - Montréalais
Moved talk relating to Timorese history to Talk:History of East Timor. - Montréalais
what happened to all the old information in the article - some of which was more detailed than the CIA Factbook entry?
I moved it to History of East Timor. - Montréalais
Timor Leste?
Shouldn't this really be moved to Timor Leste.? -fonzy
- I am in the process of writing to the State Department as if they use East Timor or Timor Leste to refer to the State. Depending on what I get back from them, Let's move the page then. - hoshie
- So? I'd argue that the issue of East Timor vs. Timor-Leste is comparable to Ivory Coast vs. Côte d'Ivoire - the state's government officially asked only to be called by its local name in international relations, so I'd say it should be Timor-Leste... Nightstallion 19:10, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Who wrote this incredible piece of text?
Due to her potential submarine oil fields, the tiny country currently runs the risk of becoming a puppet state like Panama and the Republic of Texas. Some even think that petroleum made the Western countries, especially Australia and the U.S., separate East Timor from Indonesia. I'm still laughing about the puppet state of Republic of Texas. Cheers! User:Marco Neves
Who cares what the State Department of a foreign power thinks? The name of the country is Timor Leste. I'm putting it where it belongs. Tannin 10:07, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- I was wondering why was the article on East Timor renamed to Timor Leste? Has the country changed its name recently or should it always have been Timor Leste? Is Timor Leste, Portuguese for East Timor or does the name have another origin? I have only every heard the country called East Timor. -- Popsracer 11:14, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)
how the country prefers to be referd
Its how the country prefers to be referd. "Timor joined the United Nations in 2002, it decided to be officially referred to by its Portuguese name, Timor Leste, as opposed to its English name."
Its like the Ivory Coast which is refered to as Côte d'Ivoire. - fonzy
The difference is I can type "Timor Leste" on a computer keyboard without giving myself a headache! :) Tannin
you get a headcahe typing the words "East Timor"? - fonzy
- This is crazy. Tell me this: where is the article on Germany located? Or Japan? Or China? Our naming convention requires that you "Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English than the English form." See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). -- Tim Starling 04:29, Sep 13, 2003 (UTC)
- I definitely agree. This should be at East Timor as that is the most commonly used name in English. It's different from Côte d'Ivoire, since that name is now commonly used in English, whereas Timor Leste is not. - Montréalais 02:44, 18 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- I agree. Until stupid people like myself start calling places by their native names, this article should be at East Timor. Tuf-Kat 02:55, Sep 18, 2003 (UTC)
On the contrary, Timor Leste is the country's name now, and will quickly become the standard way of referring to the place, particularly in those parts of the world which have most contact with the new country. There is symbolisim here, and it ain't unimportant: "East Timor" was a colony, then a nation under hostile military occupation - their choice to select a new official name should be (and will be) respected by the international community. Tannin 03:00, 18 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- I'm not sure it's our job to preempt, predict or lead a name change. Perhaps we should keep using East Timor until usage changes, and then change it here. Two random thoughts:
- Are you sure it's not Timor-Leste (with a hyphen)? That's what the UN website calls it. [4] (http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html)
- Wasn't Timor-Leste a colony too? Just the lesser of two evils, I guess. (Tim) (Exactly. -- Tannin.)
- -- Tim Starling 03:14, Sep 18, 2003 (UTC)
I agree, we should move with change, not lead it. But that change is well and truly underway. Most websites update far more slowly than we do, but they are getting there, bit by bit. As for the hyphen, yes, that is in common use also (and was the form that I originally expected to use) but my searching suggested that the two word form seemed to be preffered. Tannin
- I don't think the frequency of website updates comes into it. It's been almost 12 months since Timor-Leste joined the UN. In that time, the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has made no move towards a change in nomenclature, judging by these press releases (http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/east_timor/index.html). This US Deparment of State list (http://www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm), updated last February, gives "East Timor" as the short name, and "Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste" as the long name. The official East Timor Government site (http://www.gov.east-timor.org/) predominantly uses "East Timor" in English text. The main page of that website has a (not necessarily accurate) timestamp of September 10, 2003. And searching Google News (http://news.google.com.au) for each name, restricting results to those published since August 18, returns 37 "Timor Leste" hits, and 1230 "East Timor" hits. -- Tim Starling 04:41, Sep 18, 2003 (UTC)
- I agree with Tim - and Tannin it wasn't called East Timor when it was a colony it was called Portuguese Timor
- PMelvilleAustin 21:50, Sep 21, 2003 (UTC)
- I'll be making the move tomorrow if there are no further reasons not to. - Hephaestos 08:12, 23 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Timor Leste is Portuguese for East Timor. The question is pointless, there is no symbolism here. The colony was called Timor Português, the Indonesian Province Timor Timur and now it is called Timor Leste (East Timor in Portuguese). User:Marco Neves
East Timor is clearly the term used in English quite predominantly. Especially given that Timor-Leste is just East Timor in a non-English language, not actually a different name, I see no reason to deviate from the English usage. We don't call Germany Deutschland, after all. --Delirium 22:09, Dec 5, 2003 (UTC)
The European Union (which includes the UK and Ireland) uses East Timor and not Timor-Leste [5] (http://publications.eu.int/code/en/en-5000500.htm) for both long and short forms. --Akkolon 19:11, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
If someone doesn't like this they're (of course) free to revert, but I'm deleting "When East Timor joined the United Nations in 2002, it decided to be officially referred to by its Portuguese name, Timor-Leste, as opposed to its English name." This is unnecessary - the article for Germany doesn't say "When West Germany joined the United Nations it decided to be referred to by its German name, Deutchland, as opposed to its English name." This appears only to have been added to appease those who, as demonstrated by their advocating the movement of this page to Timor-Leste, are confused as to the difference between a state's official name and its name in the English language. Bizud 23:37, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Although if people are going to revert, as has been done, an explanation would be appreciated. I'm reverting it back.
Looks like I have to change it back again.Bizud 22:56, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- the problem is that the country really choose the name "Timor-Leste" to be used in all languages. So Timor-Leste in English is Timor-Leste. the name of the nation in English is "The Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste." and not "The Democratic Republic of East Timor.". That doesnt mean it shouldnt be known as "East Timor". see this pic... [6] (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c8/250px-President_gusmao.jpg) Germany in English never uses "The Democratic Republic of Deutchland". I'm going to correct it. -Pedro 23:44, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
![[6]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c8/250px-President_gusmao.jpg){kind=link}
Oil
Indonesia invaded because of oil and other such resources, this should be included. Mir 04:13, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Says who? What's your source? 144.131.218.105 14:29, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I dont know if there is a source per se, but it is a logical conclusion. I mean East Timor had oil which is a valuable commodity, and indonesia invaded East Timor and as a result would have control of that oil. Mir 06:03, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- In 1975 when Indonesia invaded, the oil was in a disputed border region. Exploration had been suspended pending a treaty. So in practical terms, East Timor didn't have oil until the Timor Gap Treaty in 1992. Suharto had political reasons for invading East Timor, as discussed in History of East Timor. It's certainly not a logical conclusion, you need a reference. -- Tim Starling 07:30, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
The infobox
Take a look at Template talk:East Timor infobox for a little background. The info box mentiones (outdated) information put in by a very persistent anon user who isnt exactly vandalizing, but more a little clueless. The info box as it is now messes up the article with his footnotes. All attempts to communicate with this person has been in vain as he does not respond to any communication. So I leave it up to the editors of this article to resolve what to do about it. Thank you. Inter\Echo 16:38, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)