Talk:American

I moved the below version with a bit of editiorializing by User:209.166.90.165 here to talk. --Infrogmation 10:13 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

American can mean "of the United States of America" (the most common egocentric usage in the English language ); it also means "of or relating to the the Americas".

This first usage is a typical egocentric attitude that the United States perpetuates in its culture. It should also be noted that:

Fidel Castro is an American.
Argentinians are Americans.
Peruvians are Americans.
There are a few considerate people in the USA who are actually offended by the egocentric usage of American to mean a citizen of the USA. The rest could care less about you and your brethren in whatever lesser nation you hail from.

No one thinks of Argentinians, Peruvians or Fidel Castro as American. Also - we have been known as Americans since the founding of this country, but now some arrogant people just want to take it on their own to change what we are called. No one had any confusion in calling us Americans as we stormed the beaches of Normandy to save Europe, but I guess now that Europe and the world has a problem with us - it's okay to make these kind of arrogant remarks about us. So tell me - when Le Monde had the headline after 9/11 saying - "We are all Americans now" did they include Cuba and Colombians in there? --JerseyDevil 10:07, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"No one thinks of Argentinians, Peruvians or Fidel Castro as American." No, actually millions of people do. Perhaps none of them happen to live in your neighborhood. As a global encyclopedia, we should note that some terms can be used with different meanings in different places, which the article appropriately does. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 15:21, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's a very POV statement to say that these people aren't American just because you don't think so. Please consider the NPOV nature of Wikipedia. You are not everyone and don't get to decide what "no one" or "everyone" thinks. Instead, it is preferred that we give the reasons for our viewpoints and let the readers decide what to think. See Wikipedia:The perfect article. We are to mention which viewpoints are more popular (with reasoning for why they are popular), and mention other existing viewpoints. :)

I don't personally feel offense at the idea of being American. "Politically correct" terms include the usage of American as a nationality: African American, Asian American, etc. However, it should be mentioned on the page that not everyone agrees with this.

Most people in the United States don't consider it taboo, while in other regions it may be. That's all we need to say. Both sides are presented well and a reader can choose.--Sketchee 03:10, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

Sorry buddy, but in English (and in most languages, for that matter), an "American" is a resident of the United States. That's just how it is. (What else are you going to call them--United Statesers?) For Spanish-speakers, it may be different. Good for them. Funnyhat 03:11, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, we are not your buddies and we call you U.S.-American(s), if you realy care to know. --Ollinaie 12:02, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I always find this issue odd. I hear the term "Amerikanos" used all the time by my Greek relatives to refer to people from the US, and presumably that's not due to them being egocentric Americans. It's just the generally accepted usage, English language or otherwise. --Delirium 18:34 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

In Canada "American" means the United States...we don't describe ourselves as being "American" as in "from the Americas." Well, sometimes people do, but usually the only people who do that are the kinds that want Canada to join the US as a new state...otherwise Canadians are North Americans, Peruvians are not Americans, they are South Americans, as are Argentinians. (I've actually never heard Cubans being descibed as any sort of American, not even Central American.) Just thought I would add this, it seemed relevant :) Adam Bishop 18:51 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

The disambiguation page seems like more of a hassle than it is worth, whenever someone writes the word "American" in English, it is clear that it refers to a resident of "The United States of America". I have never heard it used in any other way. I would suggest changed this page to a redirect, but I won't change it because it seems some people feel very strongly about this realistically non-existent multiple meaning. What do other rational people think?

Given that it's an issue that is brought up periodically, I think it's worth having this explanation. It's information, and information is what we're all about. =] That said, I do agree that 99% of the uses of "American" are intended to refer to those from the USA, and this is true whether or not the person using the term is from the USA -- when a Greek says "Amerikanos" they mean person from the USA; when a German says "Amerikaner" they mean person from the USA; when a Briton says "American" they mean a person from the USA; and so on. So it really has nothing to do with US cultural imperialism, as this usage is standard in dozens of languages throughout the world. --Delirium 21:04 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

If you change this page to a redirect to United States of America, then you should put disambiguation text at the top of United States of America:

American redirects here. For other uses of the word American, see American (disambiguation).

Personally I dislike such things, from a reader's perspective, and thus almost always prefer hub disambiguation in such cases, with the current software. Martin 00:37 21 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I appreciate Infrogmation's attempt to be succinct, but I think it's pruned down a little too far now; it is a delicate subject for a number of people, and in this case extra explanation might forestall future flamage. Stan 19:32, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Well, I think Infrogmation's second paragraph is perhaps better than the old one, if it is really true that some significant number of Latin Americans really use "American" (especially, in English usage) to include themselves. However, I liked the original first paragraph better and I definitely believe it is more accurate. Daniel Quinlan 20:00, Aug 11, 2003 (UTC)

I removed the article link to USian. I think it's very misleading as that neologism (yes, it is one, technically) is basically never used outside of Wikipedia and a few random sites (like usian.org). Just because someone was able to coin a word, I don't think it immediately makes it encyclopedic. There are a lot of non-preferred words we don't link to for similar reasons (including offense which is definitely a factor for USian). Just because a few pedantic or prejudiced editors object to the existence of the term "American", does not mean we need to link to a made-up so-called alternate word. The word is not used. People who live in the USA are "Americans" and almost all Americans want to be called "Americans" and virtually everyone calls them "Americans". Wikipedia should not be advocating language changes by trying to spread neologisms that were dead on arrival. Daniel Quinlan 20:03, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

Google gets me 1290 hits for usian -wikipedia, and 1340 hits for usian. If you look at the article on Usian, it discusses all the various neologisms - not just this one, and the various neologisms as a group are certainly worth an article, in my opinion. Martin 20:10, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

There are 75,000,000 hits for "American" and if even only 10-50% of those are using the term for "American" rather than the part of a compound, then they dwarf "Usian" by a huge factor. The discussion of the neologism does not warrant such a long explanation here as most of this material is already in Alternative words for American (which I just renamed from Usian since it discusses all of the alternative words). I think they are absolutely worth an article, though, don't get me wrong. Daniel Quinlan 20:34, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

I do see your point - my main concern was that the unadorned link to "Usian" on the page wasn't very clear, and might puzzle readers. Perhaps with your rename this is no longer an issue? Martin

So, this is no longer a disambiguation page as such - should we still fix links from [[American]] to [[United States|American]]? Most other nationalities redirect in this way, it would certainly be more consistent. What do you think? -- sannse (talk) 18:52, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

I am troubled by the lack of specification that the use of American as a self-descriptor in North and South American nations is basically confined to Latin American countries. In Canada, it is generally considered an insult to refer to one as "American." Call a Canadian "American" and you will definately be corrected, if not assaulted.

I removed two links on this page to "controversy" and "derogatory". These are common english words, with no specific bearing on the topic at hand.

Controversy above quite funny, as often on Wikipedia. Reminds me of the fall of the Byzantine Empire when the Byzantines were quarreling over the gender of the angels while the Turks were besieging Constantinopolis. By the way, the use of the word "Turk" for the inhabitants of Turkey may be considered as egocentric as the use of the word "American" for the inhabitants of the USA. What about the people of Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, and so on? They also consider themselves Turks... Hardouin 01:50, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

For those above who think that all the languages of the Earth use the word American both for the inhabitants of the USA and the inhabitants of the Americas, as is the case in English, let me remind you that this is not true in Chinese where 美国人 is used for an inhabitant of the USA, and 美洲人 is used for an inhabitant of the Americas. Same in Spanish were estadounidense is used for inhabitants of USA, and americano for inhabitants of Americas. I don't know all and every language, so there are possibly other languages which make the distinction. But already with Chinese and Spanish that's a quarter of mankind who make the distinction!! Hardouin 01:54, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't think anyone has argued that ALL languages use the term that way, but rather that many of them do. More importantly, since this is the English version of Wikipedia, it should be noted that virtually all English-speakers do. In English, calling a guy from Ecuador an "American" is just plain weird. And calling a Canadian an "American" is a good way to get punched in the nose. Funnyhat 03:20, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Pointing out that the CIA world factbook is a US Gov't publication is redundant and calling extra attention to it is POV. Daniel Quinlan 05:30, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I decided to be bold and remove that sentence entirely, as it does nothing for the article itself. Mike H 08:48, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

América is a continent

América is a continent. Period. ALL the citizens (yes, ALL the citizens) of the continent are americans. Period. The citizens of Uruguay are Uruguayan, the citizens of Brazil are Brazilians and the citizens of the country called United States of America should find a name different from "american".--Vinoysandia 19:40, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Continents do not have citizens. While you may feel that a Uruguayan is an American, he may not consider himself one. We should not impose being an American on other people. Many people do not feel a sense of identity beyond their country of citizenship. Acjelen 20:04, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I came here looking for an etymology of the term, otherwise quite hard to find online: I remember it as a whole-cloth creation of Benjamin Franklin (to apply 'American' to all the peoples of the British colonies), something that he later claimed as the invention he was most proud of. It's disappointing that the entire article deals with dead-end angst over his creation.

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Talk:American

América is a continent

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