Talk:Subdivisions of England

An explanation of the difference between "Cities" and "Cities and Boroughs" would be useful here. Vicki Rosenzweig

I agree. The reference used here is the CIA World Fact Book, and even if I do not doubt that the facts are correct, my experience is that it can sometimes be structured in an archetypical way, which may lead to misinterpretation. I am just surprised over the lack of structure for the articles on the subdivisons of England and the UK and this is what I'm trying to adress. -- Mic

- It looks like the term "city borough" is no longer used. A Google search of the official .gov.uk domain reveals mention of no "city and borough"s and only three "city boroughs": Peterborough, Durham and Sunderland. The last two in historical contexts. Of the three, only Sunderland appears on the CIA's list. As the 2002 fact book didn't include Wolverhampton's or Brighton's promotion to city status in 2000, I expect it's also missed out the end of "city borough"s.

Google's cache reveals that at www.government-online.co.uk (a limited company in Stockport, not a governemnt site) there used to be a lot of pages referring to "Manchester city borough council" etc., which have now changed to read "Manchester city concil".

I've rearranged the lists to bring "cities" and "city boroughs" together and questioned the distinction. Andy G 20:44 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)

This is an absolutely weird article; the administrative regions of England are as follows:

• Shire counties, eg Cornwall, with their component
  • district councils
• Unitary authorities like Rutland and Brighton and Hove
• Metropolitan counties like West Yorkshire, with their component
  • metropolitan districts, eg Bradford MDC
• London boroughs (royal boroughs no distinction)

jimfbleak 15:21 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yes it's certainly odd, but I expect the CIA got their classifications from somewhere. It would be nice to trace where they did come from before replacing them with more up-to-date groupings. Incidentally-

• Metropolitan counties no longer exist administratively; see article. E.g. West Midlands is now Birmingham, Coventry, Sandwell, Dudley etc. The names are still commonly used as a geographical convenience.
• Two of the Unitary Authoriites, Rutland and Herefordshire are also historical shire counties - is "shire counties" the right name?

The regions named certainly match those on the Ordnance Survey administratvie map of GB (http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/freegb/index.htm#maps), so it's just the groupings that are odd. Andy G 19:55 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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By what logic is e.g. Milton Keynes an "Administrative county"? It has never been a county, and is at present known as a "Unitary Authority". Andy G 19:11, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It has been an administrative county since April 1, 1997. Please see county of Milton Keynes, which quotes from [1] (http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19951769_en_2.htm), which makes this clear. Morwen 11:54, Jan 25, 2004 (UTC)

Oh. Mea culpa. I see we also have a "County of Bath and North East Somerset". I get the feeling the term "county" has been hijacked to describe any old legislative area the government want, rather than what people normally think of as a county. I can't see a DJ reading out a letter from "Maisie in Bath and North East Somerset". Andy G 18:52, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

We also have a bunch of Ceremonial counties of England, which are the ones people use geographically today. They are basically the same as the 1974 counties, but with Cleveland, Humberside, and Avon abolished, and Herefordshire and Rutland restored. I am pondering about how to integrate the articles into a big counties of England article. Morwen 18:54, Jan 25, 2004 (UTC)

This article needs updating, as an Assembly referenum is only going to be held in the NE now.