User:MacGyverMagic/Venomous snakes

This discussion has been copied from the Reference Desk on May 7, 22:40 GMT. Additional info was added on May 10.

Venomous snakes

To my fellow Wikipedians, I'm researching a piece of fiction and stumbled upon a problem. I need to find info on a venomous snake, its venom highly neurotoxic to humans, causing death in about 5 seconds (preventing someone from making a quick defensive move). The catch is: this particular snake needs to handled by a skilled herpetologist and temporarily put in a briefcase - so its size is limited. Also, I'd like the signs of poisoning to be minimal, besides the bite marks. I have no clie where to start. Can anyone point me to some relevant info?

Rest assured, I'm not intending to handle snakes or use them to kill someone. - MGM 12:24, May 5, 2004 (UTC)

I don't know very much about snakes but I believe that even the most dangerous kill with in hours rather the seconds. (well they kill their prey much more quickly but a rat is a lot smaller than a man) I don't know of any snake that can kill within seconds. What about man made poisions. There are plenty, I think many of the cyanide typew compounds would work. theresa knott 13:34, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

In Kill Bill, author Quentin Tarantino uses a black mamba for this purpose. It is the fastest moving land snake, and has fairly fast-acting venom. (in the movie the speed was perhaps slightly unrealistic, but hey, it's fiction) -Anon

Yes poetic licence is a wonderful thing. According to this web site (http://www-surgery.ucsd.edu/ent/DAVIDSON/Snake/Dendroa3.htm) at U of C San diego 30 - 120 minutes is a more realistic timing. theresa knott 19:47, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

Well, in the movie, it could have been that much time. Half an hour is certainly within the time frame of the movie. Two hours might be stretching a bit. --WhiteDragon 14:59, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps this explains why real assassins rarely use poisonous insects, venomous spiders, sawmill blades, runaway trains, burning ropes suspending heavy objects, or teenage japanese girls with katanas, but stick instead to a prosaic diet of bombs, rockets, and particularly guns. The "mercenary" manual for the ancient Traveller role-playing game gave sage advice in killing people. Despite technological innovations, it said, the easiest way to kill someone is to inject their body with a large amount of kinetic energy, ideally imparted by a large chunk of metal moving at speed. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:00, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

The fierce snake produces the most toxic venom of any snake. LD-50 is 0.025 mg/kg [1] (http://www.sdreader.com/php/ma_show.php3?id=020801A). Trouble is, there are no recorded deaths. All recorded bites to date have been snake handlers, who generally have some anti-venom handy. [2] (http://www.avru.unimelb.edu.au/avruweb/Taipans.htm) The Black Mamba venom has a toxicity of 0.32 mg/kg. Unfortunately readily-available toxicity data isn't particularly closely related to kill time. Hydrogen cyanide, when injested, has a toxicity of about 1 mg/kg, but kills much faster than snake venom. Perhaps you should pick some exotic snake that nobody has ever heard of, and claim it kills in 5s. -- Tim Starling 02:20, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

Are we decided on snakes? I think there are types of sea creatures that are more poisonous - what about the Blue-ringed Octopus, or the Pufferfish? Mark Richards 03:12, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm, for some reason whenever people talk about poisonous animals, the discussion turns to Australian native wildlife. Blue-ringed octopuses aren't particularly dangerous, they take many hours to kill and even then I don't think they kill 100% of people. Pufferfish aren't really dangerous unless you eat them. No, if you wanted a truly dangerous poisonous sea creature, the obvious choice would be the Box jellyfish. They can kill in half an hour or so, fast enough that the victim might not be able to get medical attention. -- Tim Starling 01:56, May 7, 2004 (UTC)

• Please keep discussing, your ideas so far have been great...- MGM 19:38, May 7, 2004 (UTC)

I just remembered some information about snake bites that I learnt in school. In most cases, the snake venom is not injected directly into a blood vessel. Instead it's picked up by the lymphatic system. Unlike the circulatory system, material is moved by a ratchet effect, with help from gravity and muscle movement. The huge majority of snake bites are to a limb. Applying a pressure bandage to the affected limb, immobilising it with a splint or similar, and keeping the patient still can slow progression of symptoms by a large factor. I heard on the weekend about someone dying from a Black Mamba bite in a couple of minutes, because he sprinted away to get help. If the snake bit a person and by chance struck an artery, and the person had a very high heart rate at the time, perhaps death could occur in seconds. -- Tim Starling 02:31, May 10, 2004 (UTC)