Talk:Unisex name
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Isn't Rene spelled differently by gender? Andrea is a male name? Perhaps we should list this by which nationality uses them in a unisex manner. Rmhermen 20:20, May 20, 2004 (UTC)
- Yes, in French there is Renée (f) and René (m). However, if the parents don't speak French, they might not know which form to pick for their child. Also, there is the possibility that "Renee" would be mispronounced by English speakers. In any case there are women called "Rene": just do a search on IMDb for actresses named "Rene" and you'll find plenty of examples. --MarkSweep 20:18, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Also I believe Claude is the male version of Claudia? Zoney 21:05, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
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It's all good.
Some people call me Nikki. I think we do not need to specify which country, because many of these names are Western based, but not necessarily from any one specific country, although there might be a preponderance of one name within a particular country. 12.146.72.135
James?
Some secondary form of classification would be helpful. For example, with the name James. I don't see how that's unisex. If I knew it were a common girl's name in another language or culture, my instant reaction wouldn't have been to remove it (which I didn't do, but thought about for quite a while) Sahasrahla 04:00, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)
- I think that the person who added James as a unisex name was mistaken. The only female that I know of named James is the actress "James King" [nm0454809], who was born Jamie King, but switched to James King when she started acting because there was already an actress named Jamie King. IMDB only shows here using that name for three movies (including "Blow" and "Pearl Harbor"), before she switched back to her given name. There were, in the Middle Ages, a fair number of names that were used for both sexes, and I think that James was one of them, but in the context of this article, I don't think that James belongs on the Unisex names list. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 09:53, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- The question of international and multilingual scope applies; conversely, if the article only applies to the U.S., that is all right, but it should be said. And I'd want to be shown a male Kelsey other than Kelsey Grammer, but I suppose that on the famous-exemplar principle, he may be the first of many. In fact, I may be in a position to commit a slight abuse of access to school student records. (I am rja.carnegie@excite.com)
Cor(e)y
Cory or Corey -- dominantly male names
Kori or Corrie or Cori or Corri or Korrie, etc -- usually female
- Not so. I've added examples for "Cory". --MarkSweep 20:18, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
One or two examples does not a female name make. In the last 15 years, Cory for males has ranked as 69th to 323rd most popular according to the US Social Security Admin. Cory as a female name doesn't even register. Change the spelling to Kori or Cori and that name barely breaks into the 900-1000 most popular for females. The "equivilant" on this list would be "Bobby (variant spelling Bobbie is female)."
http://www.thenamemachine.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Cory pretty muchs shows its no more unisex than the name Brian or Michael. No one here would think to place Michael or Brian as a unisex name, but they have been used as female names far more often than Cory -- see http://www.thenamemachine.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Michael or http://www.thenamemachine.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Brian
Again, the "equivilant" on this list would be "Bobby (variant spelling Bobbie is female)." Adding "Cory (variant spelling Cori is female)" would be acceptable -- however, if done, there are quite a few names that should/will be added.
Examples?/Alternative spellings?/Definitions?
1) Should there be examples of individuals with particular names? My personal opinion is to NOT include them. If we do start including them, this list will soon become very cluttered. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 06:20, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
2) Also: Should this list include alternative spellings for names? Personally, I think that unless the alternative spelling is fairly common, they should not be included. Again, my main concern is clutter. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 06:20, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Re 1: I'm in favor of adding a single pertinent example for each name, or perhaps a single example of an exception. For instance, Marion Barry is currently listed under Marion as a notable exception. However, adding female/male pairs might be beneficial for readers with different cultural backgrounds. I agree, however, that this should not turn into a list of people by first name. --MarkSweep 06:56, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Marion used to be a slightly more common male name (look at [[John Wayne's original name for example), although its current use as a male name is probably so small that I don't think it qualifies as a unisex name and should therefore be deleted from the list.
3) Finally: Do we need the definitions of names? They are already starting to put name definitions into the Wiktionary, although that part of the project is still in its infancy. Again, my opinion is that it clutters of the Unisex name list. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 17:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Criteria for inclusion?
What should be the criteria for inclusion in this list of Unisex names? When I added a bunch of names to the list, I tried to keep most of the names within the following criteria:
1) A fairly popular name for at least one of the sexes (I used a top 500 list from one baby-naming book as one measure of popularity).
2) either a minimum 25% usage for the less-often named sex, or at least 15% if the percentage had dropped quite a bit in the last 25-50 years (in other words, it used to be at least 25% within recent history).
3) I fudged some by including a few names that were close to these criteria.
4) I also included a few names that currently had a fairly low percentage of females with that name, but had a fairly recently famous female with that name that was likely to help increase the number of female babies given that name.
5) I also fudged a bit by including a few names that were historically males names but are now primarily female names. I added those mostly for a little "flavor" to the list but also because they were names that might be encountered in history books attached to males.
I mention these criteria because there are some names from before I started adding to the list that don't really meet any of these criteria that I didn't delete from the list, and there have been some new additions to the list (for example Jaden, a rare male version of the fairly rare Biblical Jadon and probably very rare female name (as a variation of the fairly popular Jade?) that I couldn't find in any of my references) that also don't meet any of the criteria that I used.
Are these proper criteria for this list? And should there be some mention of the criteria in the on the main article page? [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 17:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- I'd say the main criterion should be whether a name is/was systematically used for women and men, perhaps at different points in time and/or in different cultures. It might be that Evelyn, Marion, etc. were more common as male names in the past and have gradually fallen out of usage; all the more reason to include it here, so a reader who's unaware of this can go to the present article. Insisting on temporal and cultural homogeneity is not warranted. --MarkSweep 20:46, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- It is probably best to leave this as an a "List of modern unisex names" (and perhaps change the article title to match). Otherwise, I think that the list might end up too long and too confusing (unless there were lots of notes about time periods and usage). I had been thinking of adding a list at the bottom of names that have historically been unisex, but it might be better to create a separate article: List of historical unisex names. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 16:22, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Let's hold off for now and await further developments. There are much longer lists on Wikipedia. As long as everything is in alphabetical order, it shouldn't be confusing. If no more than one pertinent example is added for unusual cases, it shouldn't get too cluttered either. --MarkSweep 20:18, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Chris
- Chris can be considered a shortening of both Christian and its English female-gender version, Christina.
The vast majority of people I know who go by Chris are named Christopher. — Ливай | ☺ 02:18, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Carey
A male name -- http://www.thenamemachine.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Carey Equivilant on this list would be Bobbie -- Carrie is female, Carey is male. User:C Hanna
- I am not sure if I want to trust a website that does not give any information on where their data comes from. I did find Carey listed as a female name in the three name books that I checked: The Cassell Dictionary of First Names by Adrian Room (U.K.), Baby Names for the '90's by Barbara Kay Turner (U.S.), and Beyond Jennifer & Jason by Rosenkrantz & Satran (U.S.). Alternative spellings suggested: Carrie and Kerry. The '90's book says their data is 63% boys, 37% girls (for the Carey spelling, based upon the birth registration data from 12 US states). I think that this is one of those names that is in the process of going from a predominately male name to one that will eventually be a predominately female name, so it is very appropriate for this list. BlankVerse ∅ 09:59, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Source: Social Security Admin (US)
Female use of Carey in last 14 years -- "The name Carey is not among the top 1,000 female names for years 1990-2003."
Whereas Carey (male) was in the top 1000 in 1990-1991. Popularity of the name Carey Year of birth Rank (1991 958) (1990 899) CoryBut then, the SSA is no Adrian Room!
Gender
Question about the "-- please do not change "gender" to "sex"; names typically are an expression of gender-identity, not biological sex --"
I've never changed that, but now that it's pointed out, words have a gender and people have a sex... I'm not sure that sex wouldn't be more correct here. You mention that names are typically "gender-identity" and not "biological sex", but yet, biological sex is the only thing thats known at birth -- no newborn has a "gender-identity." User:C Hanna
- Gender is a multifaceted word. Words may have gender, electrical plugs may have gender, and individuals may have gender. Sex and gender are two different things and the differences can sometimes be complicated and confusing. For example, there are a fair number of individuals born who have anomalous or ambiguous genitals at birth, and there are some who are born intersexed. There are problems (see 1, 2 & 3) where someone who has XY chromosomes (normally male), but will have a typical female phenotype (appearance), and the reverse is also true—individuals who are genetically XX, but who are phenotypically male. Then there are individuals who are transgendered who will adopt a new personal name to match their adopted gender. A person's name, in general, matches their gender role, and not necessarily their genetic or anatomical sex. BlankVerse ∅ 07:26, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I'm reading the Gender talk page and the same discussion seems to have taken place there, but falling more in line with gender does not equal sex, which is how its used here. User:C Hanna
- Perhaps I tried to bombard you with too much information, but what I was trying to tell you is that gender does not equal sex. What the anonymous editor has been trying to do is equate gender with sex. For one more wikilink, so you can understand all the various dimensions that are involved in sex (genetic, anatomical, hormonal, psychological, etc.), you should look at Sexual differentiation. Since sex is a multidimensional characteristic that usually, but does not always match in all the different dimensions, using gender is the more accurate and more appropriate word to use when referring to names.
- Also: Please try to "sign" your comments. To end your comments with your User name, date and time, end with four tildes (~), like this ~~~~. BlankVerse ∅ 07:53, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ahh, then we're likely thinking the same, that gender doesn't equal sex. Cory 02:54, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- It is a little confusing because we do refer to the names as unisex names, but unisex just means "not distinguished on the basis of sex". BlankVerse ∅ 13:31, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Barrie/Barry
I know a girl named Barrie. I have never heard of any other female by that name though. So, should it be added under unisex names or not?
Lee/Leigh
I am confused by the latest edit which says that Lee is more common for females and Leigh more common for males. Where do you get your information? I would think it would be just the opposite, at least in the US. Shoaler 11:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)