Talk:Tortoiseshell cat

Has anyone noticed that the picture on this page is not of a tortoiseshell cat but a calico cat?

Yes, I did and it irritated me. I have a tortoiseshell cat. I'll take a picture of her and post it later. B 16:13, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

• The misconception is the reason a merge is suggested. I suggest renaming this 'Calico cat' or 'Tortoiseshell and white cat', which latter sounds a bit affected, I suppose but it's the correct British name, I think. Quill 22:05, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

In the UK she would usually be described as "tortoiseshell" (or "tortoiseshell-and-white" if you were being fussy). I think a merged article is best with both types describled. I've started working on merge the two existing articles -- sannse (talk) 19:29, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"Tortoiseshell cat" should not have been merged with "Tortoiseshell". There are other "tortoiseshell" animals and meanings to "tortoiseshell" besides only "Tortoiseshell cat". The material in "Tortoiseshell" should have been moved to "Tortoiseshell cat" and a more general article written about "Tortoiseshell". —B|Talk 13:21, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I hadn't thought of that additional argument against the merge. Quill 19:44, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Oh bother - I wish you had told me that yesterday. Ok... I think the best way to preserve the history in this case is to do a cut and past transfer (as unusual as it is for that to be the right thing to do). For now, I suggest that I C&P the text back to "Tortoiseshell cat", with the appropriate edit comment, and make "Tortoiseshell" a stub - leaving the old text in the history. The other way to do it would be confusing because of the timings of the various page edits (merging the history would make it look as though the page were being switched between two versions). That sound OK? -- sannse (talk) 20:08, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Didn't know you were watching; Lachat and I took this up at talk:cat--I thought that would be the one on everyone's watchlist. Ah, well....I suppose what you're saying is that you can't just 'undo' or 'revert' or whatever? Well, I trust you to 'fix' it, but that still leaves us with the question of what to do.

I propose tortoiseshell (a disambig page;will also have jewellery and whatever) tortoiseshell cat for true torties with all references to same merged from both articles and Calico cat for the tortie and white, stating clearly that this is tortoiseshell and white in the UK. (calico cat was a redirect, so if you enter it now you get redirected to tortoiseshell cat and the page comes up and says 1. redirect tortoiseshell)

Quill 21:24, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

p.s. I got confused--brought this up at the cat article page instead of the Wikiproject talk page, which I can't find just at the moment. Sorry.Quill

Nope, I don't have cat on my list - just dog ;) I wouldn't have caught it if it was the cat wikiproject either - I only have this page on my list because I have a photo here. It was a manual merge - which is best for articles with history running on the same timescales. I've reversed what I did - now a disambiguation article or other stub can be written at "tortoiseshell" (currently a redirect until that is done). I'm not convinced that we need to split the page into "Calico cat" and "Tortoiseshell cat", it's easy enough to have the text suitable for both and, after all, there is very little difference (as I said, in the UK, "tortoiseshell" is commonly used for both - it's only if you are being fussy that you would specify "tortoiseshell-and-white"). Calico can better be left as a redirect, and this page as a combined article for the two IMO. Is there really enough to say about tortoiseshell-and-white cats that isn't also true tortoiseshells? -- sannse (talk) 23:30, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I suggest redirecting [[Calico]], [[Calico cat]], [[Tortoiseshell and white]] and [[Tortoiseshell and white cat]] to [[Tortoiseshell cat]]. —B|Talk 13:14, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Will do, except for Calico, which is an article about calico fabric (it does ref. calico cat though). [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 13:41, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yep - all agreed -- sannse (talk) 13:50, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, this all works for me, kids, except that tortoiseshell redirects to tortoiseshell cat--wasn't that one of the issues? Quill 21:21, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I went ahead and started the disambig page. [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 14:50, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Torbie?

Isn't torbie a specific type of tabby pattern? Quill 23:38, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Tortoise shells?

Aren't the shells of tortoises usually brown and isn't calico a cotton material. The article hasn't answered the one thing I wanted to know. Where these odd cat terms come from.

This anon brings up a good point. The article should address why these terms are used. I'm assuming it's because the cat coat colors resemble a toirtoshell and the calico fabric pattern? Lachatdelarue (talk) 14:57, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know, calico is a type of fabric, not a pattern. I should think it was pretty obvious that the word 'tortoiseshell' was used because it's reminiscent of the pattern on a tortoise. Perhaps some enterprising person wants to research etymology (if that's the right word) of 'calico'? Quill 22:29, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Calico (the etymology is simply that the word comes from "Calicut", the origin of the fabric); applied to an animal it means a blotched or spotted animal, especially one which is mostly white, with black and red patches - presumably this was a popular calico fabric pattern, as the cloth is white. "Tortoiseshell" in reference to the cat refers not to the appearance of the shell found on a living turtle, but to the appearance of the mottled horny substance of the shell of the hawksbill turtle used in inlaying and in making various ornamental articles, such as combs, where it appears with blotches of black and red. - Nunh-huh 22:36, 11 May 2005 (UTC)