Talk:The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)

Here is an exchange from my User Talk page, as a result of which I made a small revision to the article: (Lee M 17:58, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC))

Banners and LOTR

Hello Lee M, your article on The Lord of the Rings radio adaptation got me thinking. (This is my first attempt at adding information to wikipedia). One of the differences between the BBC version and the book you list is "Aragorn receives a black standard from Arwen as a sign that he should rouse the army of the dead. In the book the standard is that of the White Tree of Gondor."

I suppose this is in reference to the line "And with that he bade Halbarad unfurl the great standard which he had brought; and behold! it was black, and if there was any device upon it, it was hidden in the darkness." This appears both in the book and the radio series so I don't see there is any disagreement. Any thoughts? Am I posting this info to the correct page?

Also

Regards, Tim --TimSC 13:06, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hmm...I must admit I'd forgotten that particular reference...but then in ROTK Book 1 chapter 6 there's another reference to the banner: "There flowered a White Tree, and that was for Gondor; but the seven stars were about it....And the stars flamed in the sunlight, for they were wrought of gems by Arwen, daughter of Elrond..."

Obviously it's that passage that I was thinking of, and there's no reference to the White Tree at all in the BBC version. Assuming it's the same standard, and there's no reason not to, then presumably it was either wreathed in shadow in the earlier scene, or more likely enchanted so that it would only show its true colours when needed. Either way, I admit that the radio series article needs revising. If you don't mind, I'll include this correspondence on the article's Talk page for clarification.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it up... Lee M 02:04, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Actually there is a really obscure mention of the banner bearing the white tree in the BBC version when Frodo looks in the mirror of Galadriel. This is in both the book and radio versions. --TimSC 14:19, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I am confused by your phrase "Aragorn receives a black standard from Arwen as a sign that he should rouse the army of the dead." I haven't listened to the radio version, but do you mean that Arwen herself gives him the standard, or that Arwen makes the standard and gives it to Halbarad who gives it to Aragorn (as in the book)?

Secondly, I am confused by the "as a sign that he should rouse the army of the dead" bit. Again, I am going by the book and not the radio version, but in the book the banner is delivered by Halbarad with the message "The days now are short. Either our hope cometh, or all hopes end. Therefore I send thee what I have made for thee. Fare well, Elfstone!", and the signs that Aragorn should raise the dead are rather the words that Elrohir brings from Elrond: "I bring word to you from my father: The days are short. If thou art in haste, remember the Paths of the Dead.", and also the Words of Malbeth the Seer. If the radio version does imply that the banner came with a message to rouse the dead, then it is conflating the messages from Arwen and Elrond (delivered by Halbarad and Elrohir respectively). --Carcharoth 16:20, 22 January 2005 (UTC)

I must admit I haven't heard the series for a few years (I'd deliberately avoided listening to it again to avoid mental confusion with the movies) but as I recall it follows the book, in which case my phrasing may need some revision. I'll have to fish out the CD and confirm it. Lee M 02:11, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)