Talk:TRIZ

Altshuller has never been to the USA, he lived in Baku, Azerbaijan, and then moved to Petrazovodsk in Russia during the violence in the Caucasus during the breakup of the Soviet Union.

More has to be said about the actual history of the movement beyond personally Altshuller. Also, need to invite more TRIZ experts to add their 5 cents. This is a fairly divergent discipline by now, and effort has to be made to give an accurate picture of it.

Contents

1 Does anyone use it? 1.1 Congreses 1.2 at Samsung 1.3 others 2 Article style discussion

Does anyone use it?

Does anyone use this technique? And more importantly, where are examples of sucessful application? All the links seems to be sellers but no happy buyer is mentioned. Pavel Vozenilek 04:22, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

And when I am here: could it be explained in the first paragraph what it is? Right now it is just bunch of acronyms giving no sense to me. I found the whole article very dubious. (I am software engineer, this could be the problem :). Pavel Vozenilek 04:46, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

if I'll say "everybody uses it" You'll don't believe, isn't? Please see Youself www.triz-journal.com/archives/2002/05/a/ TRIZ Work Recognized-Samsung Award -- AndriuZ 00:25, 2005 Apr 23 (UTC)

Some citation from well know and well regarded journal isn't available? triz-journal doesn't sound as unbiased one. Pavel Vozenilek 01:15, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You could do Your own investigation - list of clients, users of software, participants on yearly conferences, etc..:

If TRIZ is such a good idea, why isn't everyone using it? (http://www.triz-journal.com/archives/2002/04/e/index.htm)

Comments on “If TRIZ is Such a Good Idea…” (http://www.triz-journal.com/archives/2002/04/f/index.htm) --AndriuZ 04:54, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

Congreses

• Kongress2005 (PDF) (http://www.triz-online.de/aktuelles/kongress2005/cfp.pdf)
• Japan professor site www.osaka-gu.ac.jp/php/ nakagawa/TRIZ/eTRIZ ,
• [1] (http://www.thinksmart.com/2/conv2000/2000articlelist.html)what esle I can help? -- AndriuZ 02:20, 2005 Apr 23 (UTC)
• Report from the International TRIZ Conference, Nov. 17-19, 1998 (http://www.triz-journal.com/archives/1998/12/d/index.htm) - Panel members were: Jim Smith Melroe Co. , Julian Blosiu Jet Propulsion Laboratory , John King Ford , Dick Ullman ITT-Defense , Bill Bellows Boeing/Rocketdyne , George Walgrove Kodak , Mike Hollowbrook Delphi , Louis LaVallee Xerox , Ed Sickafus Ford Research Laboratory
• ETRIA TRIZ conference in Florence (http://www.leonardo-support.com/english/news/news.asp) -- AndriuZ 09:59, 2005 Apr 23 (UTC)

at Samsung

My friend worked in Samsung in Korea for an internship. He told me that everybody at Samsung is using Triz.

Evidence for the Samsung TRIZ would be helpful. AndriuZ, links to TRIZ conferences and sites that have "triz" in the domain name are clearly biased and not helpful. The Japanese site you linked to does not exist. The one valid reference there is the ThinkSmart conference. How well-known is this conference? Was TRIZ presented there as a talk, or just in the proceedings? RSpeer 03:22, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

• • TRIZ Work Recognized-Samsung Award (http://www.triz-journal.com/archives/2002/05/a/index.htm)The Advanced Institute of Technology of the Samsung Corporation has recognized the work of Nikolay Shpakovsky with a very significant corporate award. The savings of 120 billion...
  • TRIZ-trainer (http://www.gnrtr.com/powers/en/soft03.html) is an on-line system that teaches using TRIZ methods for problem which were successfully solved by the TRIZ consultants of Samsung...
  • Structural Scheme For Solving a Problem Using TRIZ (http://www.triz-journal.com/archives/2002/01/f/index.htm) by Samsung Advanced Institute of Techology
  • [http://www.osaka-gu.ac.jp/php/nakagawa/TRIZ/eTRIZ/epapers/e2004Papers/eHJKim0406/TRIZatSamsun040609.pdf

(PDF) How to apply TRIZ at SAMSUNG Hyo June Kim]

• • How to Apply TRIZ at Samsung (HJ Kim, Sept. 2003) (http://www.osaka-gu.ac.jp/php/nakagawa/TRIZ/eTRIZ/epapers/e2004Papers/eHJKim0406/eHJKim040609.html)
  • Samsung Advanced Institute of Technology (Korea) (http://www.sait.samsung.co.kr/sait/src/saitEnIndex.html) (English)

others

In response to your points above, while not perfect, the website I have set up via the Institution of Mechanical Engineers may go some way in helping those interested in TRIZ: Institution of Mechanical Engineers (http://www.imeche.org.uk/manufacturing/triz.asp) TRIZ website

• Mitsubishi Research Institue, and MRI Systems (http://www.internetclub.ne.jp/IM/eIM/eindex.html)(English)
• introducing TRIZ to the Australian Manufacturing Magazine (http://www.imeche.org.uk/manufacturing/triz.asp) is now being featured by the British Mechanical Engineering Society.

Article style discussion

Google search links should not be used in articles (low control over result, it looks very unprofessional). If possible, majority of external links should be one section (quite common habit on Wiki that should be kept). I would quite like to see short example of TRIZ in opening paragraph (webpages that were linked from here had a lot of these but I could misread) instead of buzzwords currently here. Pavel Vozenilek 19:57, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I'm convinced that it's used. Thanks for going to the effort, AndriuZ. I agree with the style points above, regarding how the article needs to be revised. RSpeer 23:03, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

You are welcome. It was pleasure for me. Please more specific comments for imporvement?--AndriuZ 08:15, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

Well, to be a good Wikipedia article, it has to be a good explanation on its own. It shouldn't rely so much on external links (and as Pavel said, it would be best for all external links to be in a section at the bottom).

There are also too many internal links. TRIZ is not realistically going to have that many Wiki articles (and if those articles were created, I bet they would be requested to merge into the main TRIZ article fairly quickly). Long lists of linked words don't do a lot to explain TRIZ anyway. Most of them are terms that will mean nothing to the typical reader, and even those terms with existing meanings (like "System" and "Contradiction") probably have a more specific meaning within TRIZ.

Not every piece of jargon from TRIZ needs to be mentioned, especially if the jargon is not going to be explained (like "Maxi-Problem"). The article shouldn't have to go into that level of detail; it should give an overview for people unfamiliar with the field, which someone can read and understand without having to follow any links. If it is necessary to introduce some terminology, then that terminology should be explained.

An example of a situation where TRIZ could be used, and how it would be applied, near the top of the article would be useful.

RSpeer 22:34, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks again. I'll try to "invent" new article. All TRIZ comunity tries to do the same :-)))

..as about "System" or "Contradiction" - IMHO situation on "lexics vs semantics" or Lexical semantics in the world is not so simple and efforts of Ontology to collect knowledge "in one place" are on big demand. TRIZ does not pretend to change meaning of regular worlds. One technique is explain your problem to the child - that means use no special terms. On the other side terms are very useful, because contaisn some regular meanings... Wikipedia is very handy tool to glue peaces together. But maybe extended explanation should go under Wikibooks? --AndriuZ 05:17, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

I don't think you're even using these terms correctly. Lexical semantics is a field of computer science and linguistics; I should know, because it overlaps my field of research. And Ontology is far too general of a concept to be contained within a management system. I doubt that TRIZ addresses questions such as "What is existence?" As for other terms like contradiction, I think you are using a more specific meaning of the word, but not even realizing it, because from your perspective the TRIZ meaning is the overall meaning.

Please keep in mind that you probably have a different perspective on things because you work with TRIZ so much. Though I am convinced that TRIZ is a notable concept, it is only notable in the field of management, and it should be described in that context. It is not notably connected to linguistics, philosophy, anthropology, or fields of scientific study in general.

I also think that moving your extended discussion of TRIZ to WikiBooks is a good idea.

RSpeer 17:29, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks again for Your time & kind atention. I think You think little notNPOV (regardless of Your's 500:-)), but I leave it to Your concern. As long as I care about quality over quantity of edits lets talk here about things, only related to TRIZ domain or quality of article: (1) I see no contradiction of term in TRIZ meaning of contradiction against contradiction meaning in logic or dialectics... In other words there is no special meaning of contradiction in TRIZ. (2) Ontology (computer science) is very close too general of a concept to be contained within a management issues. (3) I beleve that our differences in perspective on things could help make this article better :-)) --AndriuZ 15:31, 2005 May 15 (UTC)