Talk:Mahatma Gandhi

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Mahatma Gandhi is a featured article, which means it has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you see a way this page can be updated or improved without compromising previous work, feel free to contribute.

Talk:Mahatma Gandhi/Archive 1

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Nelson Mandela

Very surprised to see Mandela cited as having been influenced by Gandhi. Mandela was imprisoned for 27 years for rejecting non-violence, which he clearly admitted to doing, and thus it seems inappropriate to heve him here. --SqueakBox 17:41, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

Mandela initially tried to implement Gandhi's methods. After repeatedly failing, and realizing that it would not work in the country, his campaign resorted to violence. --Pranathi 23:39, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

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As of this writing, there's absolutely nothing here regarding the circumstances of Gandhi's death. I'd like to see someone add a section for this.

Why is this a featured article?

To me it seems to be extremely POV. It is very pro-Gandhi and seems to either gloss over or ingore entirely unflatering facts from his life.--Heathcliff 23:03, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It's a wiki buddy. Feel free to add relevant information with a neutral point of view. If you have reservations about this being a featured article, you can nominate it at WP:FARC. -- Sundar (talk • contribs) 05:03, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. I was not aware of that page for nominating articles to become un-featured. However, I suspect that their are those who feel the article is just fine. I was hoping some of them would make some effort to justify that article as it is. Perhaps, I am wrong about it. But if no one offers any reasons why it should continued to be featured, I probably will nominate it for featured article removal.

As for adding to it myself. I may at some point. But I would have to do a fair amount of research first. I'm not really quaified to make substantial alterations to it otherwise.--Heathcliff 01:37, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

For example, the article contains a quote that "Gandhi was fully sympathetic with the victims of fascist agression." And yet Gandhi said (see Wikiquote, for example) in May 1940: "I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed." Also some would question whether this other Gandhi quote, "Hitler killed five million [sic] Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs," was truly "fully sympathetic." The article mentions his abstinence, but not his habit of sleeping with young girls in his 70s. (And Freud's suspicions about it.) Doesn't mention how he fought to prevent the British from giving the Untouchables political representation. The article implies that the British were fully responsible for partition, too.

While the assertions you make seem to be factually correct, what can we make of them? Take the sleeping with young girls. Apparently it is true that he did this to test his vow of celebacy (i.e., they really were sleeping). So what does it prove? Probably not much more than the fact that he was somewhat eccentric in his later years. It doesn't seem like something that should be in an encyclopedia article. Each of these factoids has a context. To re-create the context (thus maintaining an NPOV article) would take a great deal of ink. Not worth it, IMO. Sunray 15:26, 2005 May 14 (UTC)

That's a very weak rationalization for not dealing with it. Also you only address only one of the points that were made above (the easiest). And how do we know that he only did it to test his vow of celibacy? Because he said so? Is this confirmed somehow? Shouldn't the article simply present the facts and let the readers judge them? If the facts cannot be judged out of context then the context should be provided. If providing both facts and context is to much trouble to bother with then the whole article should just be deleted because no article at all would be prefereble to a biased fluff piece.--Heathcliff 01:54, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

So, what do you propose? Sunray 05:34, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

My take is always that we present a full picture--if there are critical voices, give them space, put them in perspective. And let's treat him like a real human being. He was a father (and there are strong critiques of that out there), he was a politician (and there are strong critiques of that out there), he was a statesman and a philosopher (who, deservedly or not, has had a very far-reaching impact on the 20th Century and continues to do so) ...—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 19:40, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

What did Gandhi feel needed to be changed when he returned to India in 1915?

My comment on the WP:FARC page:

comment - I just feel that the article as it is right now does not do justice either to the Mahatma himself or the status of being a "Featured article". It could be much wider and deeper. The article on Ayn Rand, for example, is richer in content and references.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 01:30, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Do you have sources for this information? Sunray 01:41, 2005 May 20 (UTC)

You want a source for my feeling? Huh?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 20:45, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

No. You said: "He was a father (and there are strong critiques of that out there), he was a politician (and there are strong critiques of that out there), he was a statesman and a philosopher (who, deservedly or not, has had a very far-reaching impact on the 20th Century and continues to do so)." Do you have sources for these critiques? Sunray 04:08, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)

Last edit war

The last war was about Gandhi's (in)famous quote

Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.

I copy it to here from my personal page.

Excuse me, but please give me a credible reference for the "facts" that you've added to Mahatma Gandhi. You've mentioned that Gandhi told Fisher in 1946. Is there a reference source for that? Because, while adding such radically different views, it is best to discuss that first in the talk page. Until then let me revert your changes. I'm not a fan of Gandhi myself, but I want to ensure that we stick to NPOV and No original research principles. -- Sundar 05:53, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

• • This is a well-known citation. See the following sources for instance:
    • wikiquote ([1] (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_Gandhi)). (Are you going now to remove it also from wikiquote?)
    • beliefner ([[2] (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/6/story_671_3.html)])
    • Here is the source and the analysis from Jewish point of view [[3] (http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/14357/edition_id/279/format/html/displaystory.html)]
    • [[4] (http://watch.windsofchange.net/2004/04_0906_0912.htm)] - here is a part about Czechs

... there are many other sources, easily found at google. I now tried an extensive search and never found any notion that this is a hoax or urban legend.

This is not an original research at all. Neither it is a POV. I just present what Gandhi told (which is a well-known fact) and there is a well-known explanation for it (Gandhi opposed any violent resistance, and considered mass suicide of Jews or Czechs a heroic and respectable form of non-violent resistance).--62.219.175.34 06:34, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I can't find it in Wikiquotes. Perhaps someone removed it there because of lack of references. And the other sources don't seem to be disinterested. Any way, please add this discussion to Talk:Mahatma Gandhi and make the changes to the article if you want. I'll wait for other editors to comment upon these "citations". I'll not revert now. -- Sundar 06:38, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

I just found it. Search the word cliffs . It in the section "On the west".

OK, then. Go ahead, but move this discussion to Talk:Mahatma Gandhi for the record. -- Sundar 06:46, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)