Talk:Jefferson Davis

Question for Clarification

I am curious of the origin of this statement, "Though an opponent of secession in practice". I do not agree in my studies of Jefferson Davis. His papers and speeches are littered with comments telling the south to prepare to leave the Union and that if a abolitionist wins the Presidency to pack your bags. I think it may be good to tell that side of Jefferson Davis. - --Tniem 00:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

All the material on the /Timeline so far is from a 1923 collection of Jefferson's letters and speeches called Jefferson Davis: Constitutionalist by one Dunbar Rowland . It is in the public domain. I've edited it slightly to conform with "neutral point of view". By slightly I mean where I've said Davis fought in such-and-such a battle Rowland says he 'gallantly' fought at such-and-such a battle. -- Matt Apple

Anybody want to tackle turning this into an article instead of an outline? -- Zoe

How about you? See, I even started it for you. -Smack 04:37 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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Re: 1845: It seems correct according to the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=D000113). -- Someone else 08:41 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Contents

1 Jefferson Davis factual error 2 "Trivia" & Importance 3 First Marrage location 4 Succession box

Jefferson Davis factual error

Moved from Wikipedia:Village pump on Thursday, July 10th, 02003.

I was parlaying the timeline that is Jefferson Davis into something reasonably article-like when I came upon a statement that Davis was elected to the House of Representatives in 1845. From context, I inferred that this was the United States House of Representatives, not a similarly-named legislative body of the state of Mississippi. The problem is, in case you haven't figured it out yet, that 1845 is not an election year. I think I have three options at this point: keep the erroneous date, spend hours finding a free resource where I can find the correct date, or scrap the whole timeline as factually untrustworthy. -Smack 07:24 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water for goodness sake! Just because there is one error do not delete the whole thing. I check each Events entry in the day articles I work on and sometimes delete several entries that I cannot confirm. And there is such a thing as a run-off elections and maybe a minor error where the author wrote "elected" when "took office" should have been inputted instead. --mav 07:31 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

The Funk & Wagnall's encyclopedia that's collecting dust in the other room here says "...He was a planter in Mississippi from 1835 to 1845, when he was elected to the U.S. Congress. In 1846 he resigned his seat..." No details, but it could well be a mid-term election due to the previous guy resigning or dying, or some sort of run-off. Or, of course, it could also be badly worded. --Brion 08:16 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Village Pump is too long for me to edit without truncating, but 1845 seems correct for Jefferson Davis. See [Biographical Directory of the United States Congress (http://bioguide.congress.gov/biosearch/biosearch1.asp)]. -- Someone else 08:39 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

That does confirm he started his term in 1845. The article claims he entered office in December 1845, which if true would be consistent with a late election (in 1845). --Brion 08:44 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Very well then. The timeline says that he took office on December 8, 1845. Unless someone here objects, I'll say explicitly that this was a special election. (Which is rather odd, since Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution says that vacancies in the House shall be filled by "writ of election" of the governor of the state affected. I'll just say that he was elected to fill a vacancy.) -Smack 23:51 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

On the other hand, his biography on the Congress website (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=D000113) says he served in the House from March 4, 1845 -- right at the start of the 29th Congress -- until his June 1846 resignation. However, I see December or December 8th, 1845, sometimes with a November or November 4, 1845 election date, plastered all over mysterious amateur web sites. Anyone want to look up the Congressional Record and make sure? :P --Brion 00:19 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

From what I read here, it looks like he won the election in 1844 (inaugurations for regular elections in those days were held in March, not January). - Hephaestos 17:44 10 Jul 2003 (UTC)

So you're saying the December 8 thing is erroneous? -Smack 19:01 10 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I would think that Davis was elected either in Nov or possible Dec of 1844, than took office at the normal time in March of 1845. I may attempt to work on this. I check his cong bio and he took office at the normal time in March 1845, So perhaps just rephrase he was elected to the US H R in 1844 and served from March 45 to whenever Smith03

Removed the parenthetical reference to the December date, as I have yet to see any source claiming that which is more authoritative than the Congressional bio here (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=D000113).

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"Trivia" & Importance

Also moved from Wikipedia:Village pump on July 10

This article contains a lot of information about speeches that Davis delivered in Congress. Nobody but a serious researcher would care about that information, but policy is not to delete anything useful. What is to be done? -Smack 21:27 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Is there something wrong about having info for serious research? :-) Evercat 21:30 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Not really, per se, but what I was saying is that the article has lots of information that roundly fails the "5000 people test". -Smack 01:34 9 Jul 2003 (UTC)

In particular: 1877, Visits England; 1878, Returns to Beauvoir, Mississippi; 1881, visits Europe; 1882, Visits Alabama and Georgia.

And he isn't particularly well-travelled already, how about those people who do? Do those trips merit mentioning? If so, list his great deeds. If not, that chronology is just a diary that belongs to sourceburg (sourcebourg?) Wikipedia (still under discussion, admittedly). --Menchi 06:44 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I have no doubts about keeping those. I'm looking more at stuff like "February 6. Speaks in the House regarding the ownership of the Oregon territory. March 16. Delivers a strict-constructionist speech on the river and harbor bill. March 27. Speaks on the bill to raise two regiments of riflemen."

It doesn't even say what positions he took. If it did, some insight could be gleaned, but otherwise it's virtually useless. -Smack 21:48 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I'm not going to let this unresolved question hold up the refactoring of this article any longer. I'm moving the trivial the Congressional activity here. We can figure out what to do with it later.

• 1845
  • December 19. Speaks in the House, his first speech in that body, on naturalization laws. Offers resolutions with regard to military schools and a mail route from Mobile, Alabama, to Jackson, Mississippi.
• 1846
  • January 13. Offers a resolution in the House requesting information from the Secretary of the Navy with regard to the Ship Island channel.
  • February 6. Speaks in the House regarding the ownership of the Oregon territory.
  • March 16. Delivers a strict-constructionist speech on the river and harbor bill.
  • March 27. Speaks on the bill to raise two regiments of riflemen.
  • April 8. Speaks on the bill to raise a regiment of mounted riflemen.
  • May 28. Speaks on the House resolution of thanks to General Taylor.
  • May 30. Speaks on the bill to alter the pay department of the Army.
  • June 12. Offers resolutions that medals be awarded in recognition of services rendered by General Taylor and his army at Palo Alto and Resaca de la Palma.
• 1848
  • January 3. Speaks on a bill to increase the size of the Army.
  • February 17. Speaks on the resolution of thanks to General Taylor.
  • May 5. Speaks on the bill providing for a temporary occupation of Yucatan by the United States.
  • July 1. Speaks in defense of the reputation of General John A. Quitman.
  • July 12. Speaks on the bill to establish a territorial government for Oregon.
• 1849
  • January 12. Speaks on a petition for the African colonization of free blacks.
  • January 22. Speaks on resolution by the Legislature of New York with regard to the slavery question.
  • January 31. Speaks on the bill to aid the construction of a railroad across the Isthmus of Panama.
  • March 3. Speaks on the bill for the establishment of the Department of the Interior.
  • December 20. Opposes a resolution inviting Father Mathew to a seat in the Senate on the ground of his being an abolitionist.
• 1850
  • January 10. Speaks on the resolutions of the General Assembly of the State of Vermont with regard to slavery.
  • February 8. Speaks on the question of receiving a petition for the dissolution of the Union.
  • February 12. Speaks on the subject of the extension of slavery to the Territories.
  • March 18. Speaks in defense of Buchanan's position on the slavery question.
  • May 1. Delivers a strict constructionist speech on the joint resolution providing aid to search for Sir John Franklin.
  • May 2. Objects, in a speech, to the granting of public lands to corporations.
  • May 8. Presents "the report and resolutions of the Legislature of Mississippi, on the subject which distracts and divides the people of the Union, and which threatens, unless checked in its onward course, to produce consequences fatal to the cause of human liberty, as secured and advanced by the Constitution of the United States."
  • June 13. Speaks on the bill to grant to Arkansas the swamp lands in that State.
  • September 28. Speaks on a proposition to abolish flogging in the Navy.
  • January-September. Speaks many times on Clay's compromise measures with regard to slavery.
• 1851
  • January 22. Speaks on Clay's resolution of inquiry into the expediency of making more effectual provision for the suppression of the African slave trade.
  • February 18. Speaks on Clay's resolution with regard to resistance, in Boston, to the execution of the fugitive slave law.
• 1852
  • July. Speaks in Philadelphia on the Administration's policy with regard to internal improvements, and visits New England.
  • December 1. Transmits to Congress his first report as Secretary of War.
• 1854
  • January 22. Conducts Stephen A. Douglas and some other prominent southerners to the White House for an interview with the President on the Kansas-Nebraska Bill.
• 1858
  • December. Speaks in the Senate on his proposed substitute for the Pacific Railroad Bill.
• 1859
  • January. Speaks several times on the French Spoliation Bill.
  • February 1. Speaks on the agricultural colleges bill.
  • February 28. Speaks on questions connected with slavery in the Territories.
  • December 5. Speaks on a resolution of inquiry into John Brown's raid at Harper's Ferry.
• 1860
  • February 29. Speaks on the bill for the admission of Kansas into the Union.
  • May 8. Speaks on his resolutions with regard to the relations of the States.
• 1865
  • January 12. Appoints commissioners to the conference at Hampton Roads.
• 1884
  • March 10. Delivers his last address to the Mississippi Legislature. I removed this because the timeline never reported his election.

Why not copy the whole timeline and place it at Jefferson Davis timeline? --mav 02:11 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Timeline of Jefferson Davis (redirect) - 17th of January revision (http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Timeline_of_Jefferson_Davis&oldid=604530). Moved from Jefferson Davis/Timeline (also a redirect). All of the information in the timeline now resides either in this article, or in the copy-and-paste dump above. I don't think it would be a good idea to have two parallel articles on one person. -Smack 07:09, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)

No. One would be the article and the other would be an extensive timeline. --mav

First Marrage location

The 2 sections that talk about his first marrage place it in two different states. (Kentucky and Lousiana, in her aunt's home or in his sister's). Was there 2 weddings? I doubt it, so which is correct?

Succession box

Preceded by: none

President of the Confederate States of America 1861–1865

Succeeded by: none Template:End box Why have a succession box when they are no successors or predecessors? This seems a bit silly. -Willmcw 02:01, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) True, but succession boxes also give one a quick sense of the positions held over the course of a lifetime. john k 05:59, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC) Well, the intro has all that too, at the top of the page. Maybe there should be a "position" box. Anyway, if other editors think it has merit.... -Willmcw 07:23, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)