Talk:Hippie
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* Marijuana, which then had less potency than it does today, was prized as much for its iconoclastic, illicit nature as for its effect. Whoever put this in - sure about that? -- till we *) 00:13, Aug 26, 2003 (UTC)
- <<potency>> I don't have a cite, but it is something that I've heard mentioned in informational meetings. It is asserted by those who wish to see less widespread use of marijuana, when speaking to parents who participated in the counterculture movement of the 1960s. <<source of prizedness>> Perhaps this is speculation in part, as it is a generalization, but it is certainly what I remember of the movement. I will notify the relevant Wikipedians who may be able to speak from more personal experience than I can. Kat 14:52, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- The second part is probably true, but could use a cite. The first is defiantly false. This comparison has been well-publicized by the DEA and other groups, but it is based on comparing weed seized at the Mexican border back then with weed hydroponically grown in the US today (schwag vs. kb). I will remove the claim. Tuf-Kat
- Oh dear. I haven't touched dope in a long time, but yes, anyone of my generation (I'm born in '54) who has been around drugs can assure you that what people smoke now is much stronger than what was commonly smoked in the 60s. People today smoke bud, and it's bud from plants that has been bred for potency for some time. My generation, when young, smoked mostly leaves, and when you bought a given quantity you had to card out the seeds and stems yourself. 206.124.153.89 22:47, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- I guess it depends who's buying. I'm a schwag man, myself -- seeds and stems and all. Maybe it is true that there is more potent marijuana available today than there was in the sixties, but I don't think its share of the market is as big as you make it. A lot of smokers can't afford sixty, seventy, eighty bucks for an eighth. And people have been smoking and breeding stronger weed for centuries -- just like wheat or maize or apples or walnuts -- that's not to say that the science hasn't developed a lot since the sixties, but 60s weed was also cultivated. Hydroponics was probably a new thing at the time (if it existed at all?). Tuf-Kat 06:11, Dec 27, 2003 (UTC)
This is 2 years later, but I'd just like to note something--People misunderstand and misconstrue the word "potency." You could be "really bad" or "really potent" weed in the 60s, and you can now. Pot as a whole has not gotten more or less potent. If it were more potent, it would actually be more healthy. It's funny how the anti-drug propaganda mentions that and shoots itself in the foot like that, as a side note. And, 80 BUCKS FOR AN EIGHTH? MY GOD MAN WHAT KIND OF EIGHTHS ARE YOU BUYING? I buy excellent, excellent marijuana for maximum 40$ an eighth, and only 80 if im buying the most potent stuff in the world, which is 40 a gram!
or did i misunderstand the statement?
sorry, i'm stoned. bahaha. Lockeownzj00 02:59, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I've seen $80 before (for very good stuff), though never paid more than 50. Tuf-Kat 21:53, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)
Doesn't the name Hippy come from Hipsters, a type of jeans fasionable at the time?2toise 10:56, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- It does sort of come from Hipster, but the jeans came after, not before. I think the best orthographic description of the origins of the word would go approximately: (1953) "Hep cat"-- (1957) "Hep"-- (1961) "Hip"-- (1963) "Hipster"-- (1967) "Hippie". You could continue with "Yippie" and "Zippie" and "Yuppie" and "Buppie" if you wanted to recount every tiresome transmogrification of the term.Doovinator 03:13, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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M. Mead
I don't see why discussing the truth or falseness of M. Meads surely influential assumptions about South Sea people improves an article about Hippies. So I reverted. -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 22:38, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Hiya!
I am an aging Hippie and proud of it! What is a Hippie? It depends on who you ask! If you ask Mike Wallace, it is someone who is unconventional or acts like a young derelict! LOL! Ask me and I'll say a person who is Hip or Cool or OK or Easygoing. In the Sixties a Male Hippie had long hair and wore Tye Dye T Shirts & Bell Bottom Denim Jeans. The first time I saw young men with long hair was in 1964 at JFK Airport when the Beatles arrived. Later that year I was watching NBC News Special Report and there was a Vietnam War Protest at The 1964 New York World's Fair and some young men with long hair were fighting with police on an escalator and the reporters and police were calling the protesters "Hippies" and noted they had long hair and were students at a University. Gabe Pressman was a reporter there. So the earliest report of a Hippie in my mind is 1964. Before that, the type were referred to as Beatniks. Hippies did not all have the same political beliefs or religious beliefs. Most Hippies were against the Vietnam War, but by 1975, everyone in America wanted out of Vietnam! We just weren't gonna win that one. Drug use, especially Cannabis was seen by most young people whether they were Hippies or Square. It was part of the rites of passage. Most people nowadays see being a Hippie as a way guys used to get girls. It was not. It was a way of acting for rebellious youth. Hippies still exist, but the original 1964 crop is dying fast. Last I heard of any organised Counterculture was called "The Rainbows" and they had met in Colorado in the mid 90's. Most Hippie Communes have become defunct. Hippie music is still with us and defines the time. Hippies gave us the Apple Computer for home use and invented the PCR-DNA Test which has freed many innocent men from Prison! Hippies have created new Medicines and therapies and made life better.
Supercool Dude 06:28, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Opening/Politics and Silly Statements
I think the opening definitions of hippies is too political... Make it sound like hippies were all neo-Marxists. Some were, but I don't think politics is the essence of the movement.
Also, "mid-late 1967, being a hippie had lost its real purpose" doesn't exactly reek of objectivity.
Drugs
But in fact overall, drugs were not and still are not considered a central theme in hippie culture I removed the above statement by 205.188.116.71 because this user made an all encompassing statement leaving out very key pieces of information such as who doesn't consider drugs to be a central theme? The “hippies”? Americans? Nicaragua? What percentage of this group feels this way? Half? 88%? This contributor also sounds like they’re coming to the defense of the hippie culture instead of listing factual information. They could have given a key fact, statistic, quotation, or any other piece of information to defend their point. Simply saying that drugs weren’t and are still not considered a central theme is akin to me stating boldly that overall, the paint job on my car is not considered to be ugly. I just can’t prove that. oo64eva (AJ) 22:25, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
- Well, I was there, and drugs=hippies and hippies=drugs. There were those who used more, or less, than others, but the two were inseparable. To say otherwise is wishful revisionism. Such a statement may fly now, but in the 60's and 70's would have been laughed off the planet. Doovinator 04:13, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Many people recall that hippies did not smoke tobacco cigarettes, and considered tobacco dangerous, but photographs from the time shows many hippies smoking cigarettes.
I'm not sure about this. I think the hippy movement considered tobacco "the drug of the establishment", and therefore refrained from using it; I doubt very much that they refrained from using it because they considered it dangerous. Also, it is worth remembering that many young people at that time would have dressed in a hippy style, even if they were not actual hippies (in the same way that dressing in "gangsta" style doesn't necessarily make you a gangster), so photographs showing people with long hair and tie dyed shirts smoking cigarettes doesn't really prove much.
- I'd say it basically just wasn't thought about very much. Smoking tobacco didn't really mean much of anything one way or the other at the time; however the 'preferred' smoke, the smoke which more or less defined who was or wasn't a hippie, was certainly marijuana. If pot wasn't available, catnip or banana peels or tobacco would have to do. Doovinator 07:50, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This is a mess
"Distinguishing Marks" -- Sounds like a term to descibe a dog breed. How's about "Distinguishing characteristics?"
"..., mid-late 1967, being a hippie had lost its real purpose." Huh? Where does that come from? What is a hippie's "real purpose?" The hippie spirit lives on in western culture. The statement is essentially contradicted in the next paragraph.
The Grateful Dead isn't particualrly psychedelic -- Janis Joplin more blues than psychedlic.
Yes, the "movement" may be difficult to describe, but I believe the essence is rebellion.
Another thought... with the several definitions I see here of "hippie," how about organizing the article that way -- "Peace and love hippies", "Sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll hippies," "Dirty, stinkin' drug addict hippies", etc.
Check out passive voice and weasel words, then dive in folks.
--sparkit 03:24, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Also known as flower children
--sparkit 02:06, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I worked out most of my concerns above in the draft below.
Comments?
Oh, this article could use some pictures, too.
--sparkit 03:59, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Proposed rewrite (was "I'll start")
Hippie (or sometimes hippy) is a term originally used to describe some of the rebellious youth of the 1960s and 1970s.
Hippies expressed their desire for change with communal or nomadic lifestyles, by renouncing corporate nationalism and the Vietnam War, by embracing aspects of non-traditional religious cultures, and with criticism of Western middle class values. Criticism included the views that the goverment was paternalistic, corporate industry was greedy and domineering, traditional morals were askew, and war was inhumane.
"Hippie" is also used, pejoratively, to describe long-haired unkempt drug users, regardless of their socio-political beliefs.
Origins (turn this into a header)
In the 1940s and 1950s the term "hipster" came into usage by the American beat generation to describe jazz and swing music performers, and evolved to also describe their bohemian-like culture that formed around the art of the time.
The 1960s hippie culture evolved from the beat culture. September 6, 1965, marked the first San Francisco newspaper story, by Michael Fellon, that used the word "hippie" to refer to younger bohemians. The name did not catch on in mass media until almost two years later.
Hippie action in the San Francisco area, particularly the Haight-Ashbury neighborhood, centered around the Diggers, an guerilla street theater group that combined spontaneous street theater, anarchistic action, and art happenings in their agenda of creating a "free city". The San Francisco Diggers grew from two radical traditions thriving in the area in the mid-1960s: the bohemian/underground art/theater scene, and the new left/civil rights/peace movement.
Because many hippies wore flowers in their hair and gave flowers people they are also called "flower children".
Summer 1967 in Haight-Ashbury became known as the Summer of Love as young people gathered (75,000 by police estimates) and shared the new culture of, music, drugs, and rebellion. However, the Diggers felt co-opted by media attention and interpretation, and at the end of the summer held a "Death of Hippie" parade.
Some hippies insist that "hippie" was a marketing tool created by "the establishment", and that hippies, per se, do not exist.
Politics (turn this into a header)
Hippies often participated in peace movements, including peace marches such as the USA marches on Washington and civil rights marches, and anti-Vietnam War demonstrations including the 1968 Democratic Convention. Yippies represented a highly politically active sub-group.
By 2005 standards, they were prone sexism, however the culture rapidly embraced feminism and egalitarian principles.
Though hippies embodied a counterculture movement, early hippies were not particularly tolerant of homosexuality. Acceptance of homosexuality grew with the culture.
Hippie political expression also took the form of "dropping out" of society to implement the changes they sought. The back to the land movement, cooperative business enterprises, alternative energy, free press movement, and organic farming embraced by hippies were all political in nature at their start.
Cultural characteristics (turn this into a header)
- Longer hair and fuller beards than current fashion. African-Americans (and a caucasians with "natty" hair) associated with the 1960s counterculture (and parallel civil rights movement) wore their hair in "afros." Some people find the longer hair offensive. They believe it is unhygienic, frivolous, or feminine; or offensive because it violates traditional cultural expectations.
- Bright-colored clothing, and unusual styles (such as bell-bottom pants, tie-dyed garments, peasant blouses, and Indian-inspired clothing)
- Listening to certain styles of music; psychedelic rock such as Jimi Hendrix and Jefferson Airplane, blues such as Janis Joplin, soulful funk like Sly & The Family Stone and jam bands like the Grateful Dead. Modern jam band counterparts are groups like Phish, String Cheese Incident, moe., the Black Crowes, or Goa trance music.
- Performing music casually (often guitars) in friends' homes, or for free at outdoor fairs such as San Francisco's legendary "Human Be-In" of January 1967, Woodstock, or gatherings like Burning Man festival.
- Free love (see also: Sexual revolution).
- Communal living
- Incense
Drugs subhead
recreational drugs, particularly marijuana, hashish, and hallucinogens such as LSD and Psilocybin. Some hippies prize marijuana for its iconoclastic, illicit nature as well as for its psychopharmaceutical effects. Although many hippies did not use drugs, drug use is a trait ascribed to hippies.
Drugs were, and still are, controversially considered a central theme in hippie culture.
Many people recall that hippies did not smoke tobacco cigarettes, and considered tobacco dangerous, but photographs from the time shows many hippies smoking cigarettes.
Legacy (turn this into a header)
By 1970, much of hippie style, but little of its substance, had passed into mainstream culture. The media lost interest in the hippie subculture. However, many hippies made, and continue to maintain, long-term commitments to the lifestyle. Because hippies have avoided publicity since the Summer of Love/Woodstock era, a myth arose that they no longer exist. As of 2005, hippies are found in bohemian, open-minded enclaves around the world, as wanderers following the bands they love. Since the early 1970s, many rendevous annually at Rainbow Gatherings to celebrate and pray for peace. Others gather at meetings and festivals celebrating life and love, such as the Peace Fest (http://www.PeaceFest2005.tk).
Neo-Hippies (turn this into a header)
Neo-hippie is a name given to turn of the 21st century hippies, who retain some aspects of the 1960s hippie movement. Dreadlocks, especially with beads sewn into them, are popular among neo-hippies.
Pejorative connotations (turn this into a header)
The term "hippie" is often used with the pejorative connotation of participation in recreational drug use (at least to the extent of using marijuana) and choosing not to think or care much about work, responsibility, the larger society, or personal hygiene.
That's it for now... --sparkit 03:51, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've edited the above proposed rewrite. Comments? --sparkit (talk) 04:29, May 1, 2005 (UTC)
I finished the above rewrite and posted it. I don't think I left out any of the previous material. --sparkit (talk) 15:20, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
hippie purpose
if im not mistaken hippies had a very good purpose in this world. I think they only meant to show the harm and badness in all of the commercialism and war in the world. I think it would be a better thing if more people in the world were hippies. Maybe then people would understand the harm they're doing to this world. Like the walk outs for example. They just wanted to get attention from the public, so that they would hear them out.
Hippies
Hippies were not any kind of political movement.
Some spouted Socialist beliefs, but there was no one point of view.
Some voted for Humphrey and others voted for Nixon.
- WRONG. Some may have voted for Humphrey, but NONE voted for Nixon!!
Yippies were Hippies who belonged to the Youth International Party, a Socialist style Political Party that flopped.
Yuppies are........... Well, look in a mirror next time you eat quiche while yapping on your Cellphone! LOL!
Some Hippies began to follow Hindu religious beliefs and spoke of anti-materialism and spiritualism.
There was no one belief, or party or connecting thread. It was like calling most teenagers in the 60's and 70's "Generation X".
The word Hippy existed before Hippie. If you had fat hips, you were called a "hippy" person!
Regarding the first use of the word Hippie, if you go thru local New York City TV Station archives, you will see that in 1964, Anti War protests were conducted by youth with long hair and were called Hippies by Police and reporters. Befor 1964, all Hippies were refered to as Beatniks.
Supercool Dude 04:18, 15 May 2005 (UTC)