Talk:Hardware random number generator
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This article needs lots of work: it's full of half-truths.
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trancendental numbers
article contains the phrase:
- "or even trancendental number such as pi, or e, or phi."
I am not sure what number the author refers to by phi. Phi is somtimes used the represent the number called the 'devine ration' or 'golden section'. That number is not a trancendental number but a simple algebraic number.
I haven't edited, because I don't know if phi also refers to some well known trancendental number.
- You are right, and I have edited it to a more correct state. Dysprosia 12:08, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Hello. This is an interesting article. I have reworked the introduction. The main change has been to emphasize hardware rng in the intro; the previous rev had a lot of stuff about pseudo-rng's, which is interesting but a digression in the intro. Yes, it is necessary at some point to contrast the two, but putting that before a description of hardware rng's seems to be putting the cart before the horse. -- There is also a depreciative tone in the comparison with pseudo-rng's, to the effect that pseudo-rng's are bad because they're not really random. Well, that's a feature, not a bug; whether it's a problem depends on the purpose for which numbers are needed, and this article needn't, and shouldn't, take a stance one way or another. Happy editing, Wile E. Heresiarch 14:58, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Revision
I made a pass at editing it. I moved the section about attacks on RNGs to the random number generator attack article. I also deleted the paragraph on using lossless compressing to improve entropy. I am not aware of anyone who does that and I'm not sure it would work on a stream that was close to random.
It could still be tighter. --agr 21:41, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why isn't this located at True random-number generator? --Smack 23:26, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- There are some who question the existance ot "true random numbers." I'm not one of them, but it's perhaps best to use a more neutral title. You're free to add a redirect if you wish. --agr 04:50, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- There's a lot to be said for not making bold claims in titles, but this article's present title strikes me as short-sighted and misleading. I've noticed a tendency among Wikipedists (and others) to, when describing a phenomenon, note its superficial aspects rather than its essential aspects. In this case, the essence of an RNG of this type is that its randomness is based on some acceptably random physical phenomenon (ex. radioactive decay), rather than just an algorithm. The fact that it is implemented in "hardware" is entirely secondary, but also inaccurate, as any RNG must include both "hard" and "soft" components. --Smack 19:09, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- The use of the word "hardware" to distinguish RNG's based on random physical processes from PRNGs is common in the field and antidates Wikipedia. The best terminology might be to reserve "Random Number Generator" for those based on random processes and use Pseudo-Random Number Generator for algorithm only methods. Unfortunately, that would mislead too many people because so many computer programming languages have a "Random Number Generator" that is in fact pseudorandom. I believe the word hardware has stuck because it makes the point that users need something beyond what is in the normal computer CPU to be assured of unpredictability. Anyway, its an established term of art and Wikipedia should respect that. It may make sense to work this discussion into the article, however. I may give that a try. --agr 22:17, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Naming
I've moved this back from "Hardware random-number generator"; usage seems to favour leaving out the hyphen. See this Google test (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22hardware+random-number+generator%22). — Matt Crypto 19:04, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Question on existance of randomness
I removed the annon. question "This also raises the question whether true randomness exists?" from the "Contrast with pseudo-random number generators" section. A theoretical basis for the existance of true randomness lies in the laws of Physics. See the articles and discussions on Quantum Mechanics and in particular the Bell test experiments. --agr 11:34, 16 May 2005 (UTC)