Talk:Espresso
|
|
| Contents |
Photo
Why cannot a picture be linked to an espresso machine? For those looking on info about them it could be useful to find a picture that maybe tells more than just verbally explaining the principle of how it works. Zisa
Why not and a text explaining the principe but I have no photo of an expresso machine. Who has one ? Ericd
- I've added a photo, but it needs improvement. The machine shown is a personal espresso machine, good for a cup or two, but not the sort of thing you would encounter in a cafe. It should be replaced with something more representative of a real machine when such a photo becomes available. pjf 09:45, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'll see if I can get a picture; I work in a coffee shop Eion 00:37, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Hi, I embellished this article. It's my first so I hope you all enjoy it. I'm a little bit of an enthusiast in the area so I thought that maybe the topic of espresso machines warranted it's own page separate from that of the drink. There's lots of new pages linked in this page and I hope to get to them soon too. Simpolman 20:49 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)
Meaning
So, er, does it mean "extremely quick", or does it mean "pressed out"? -- Oliver P. 21:19 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)
Well, before it said extremely quick, but in the sources I've seen it meant pressed out. Quick might be a connotation. Perhaps I should add that. However I belive that might just be an american connotation. If any Italians know for sure, that'd be great. Remember those "Expresso" Dodge Neons? Simpolman 21:35 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)
A friend of mine brought it to my attention that espresso was invented long after latin was no longer spoken. He's from italy and he claims that Espresso means the same as Express does here. It can either mean fast, or as in "artistic expression". I'll address this when I finish editing this page. Simpolman 22:28 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)
I'm from Italy, and I can confirm that espresso means very quick (the other meaning is also common but doesn't apply to this context imho). There are a few mistakes in the page, at least from an italian point of view: - the photo: in Italy you _always_ drink espresso in small cups, not glasses - a barista is a bartender, wether brewes coffee or not - shots are a foreign concept. We use the terms 'ristretto' (means shrinked, about a quarter of a shot) and 'doppio' (means double, about a shot), while 'normale' (means plain, about half a shot) is the default, and usually you only use it if the barista asks you how you want it. A side note: when Italians drinks espresso out of their countries are usually frustrated because the bartender will give them a drink much bigger than they are used to, and it gets much weaker and tasteless than what we're used to, despite the fact that often (at least in the US) they're often using the finest brand of coffee and the finest equipment you can find in Italy. I guess the main reason for that is to meet the taste of local people, used to drink mugs of lighter coffee.
Marcello Jun 18, 2003
Hmmm... Apparently this got discussed but never changed. I can confirm Marcello's statement, having grown up in Italy, and I'm correcting the article to reflect the correct meaning ("very quickly"). — Asbestos | Talk 13:10, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- "Espresso" means literally "pressed out from", because hot water is pressed out through the ground coffee. E.g. French coffee is instead prepared by filtering, and is much weaker. The "very quickly" meaning you people allege comes probably from the "espresso" trains (guess what, it means express train), which are indeed pushed through stations (in the sense they do not stop).Orzetto 10:32, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Um, I'm afraid it doesn't. L'Espresso (http://www.espressonline.it/eol/free/jsp/index.jsp?m1s=hp) isn't a "pressed-out" newspaper. Similarly, the Corriere Espresso isn't the pressed-out courier service. Also, check an online translation of the "express": [1] (http://it.wordreference.com/it/translation.asp?enit=express&v=b) and note that the adjectival form (i.e. "quick") in Italian is, indeed, "espresso".
- I think that the confusion lies in the fact that the English verb "express", meaning to state, comes from the Latin "expressare" ("exprimere"), which is, indeed, to press out (and, in Italian, is "esprimere"). The word espresso as it is used in Italian today is completely distinct from "esprimere," however (though it probably has the same root) — Asbestos | Talk 11:10, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- To make sure that I'm not getting the wrong idea across (as I'm not making much sense), it doesn't matter if the Latin root of the verb was "to press out". "Espresso" is a very common adjective in Italian meaning "quickly" (as in my references above). It does not, in Italian, mean "pressed out" (I was getting side-tracked by references to Latin). The name of the coffee comes from Italian, not Latin, so it's Latin origin is immaterial. Being from Italy, I can confirm Marcello's statement that "espresso" has nothing to do with "pressed out" in modern Italian. — Asbestos | Talk 14:02, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- (moved from User Talk:Asbestos)
- Hi Asbestos,
- I am Italian and I can guarantee you that espresso comes from Latin ex premĕre (doh, I think); the Italian verb esprimere's past participle is indeed irregular and is "espresso". It is normally used in sentences as Gli ho espresso le mie preoccupazioni ("I expressed him my concers"), which is consistent with the idea of "getting something out". The irregularity is awkward since there are other similar verbs, as "premere" and "spremere" that have plain and regular past participles.
- There is no immediate connection between espresso and speed, except express trains. However, these trains are no longer used in Italy anyway, since they changed the name to InterCity in order to be more expensive. :-(
- Express trains, in turn, got their name originally because they were "pushed" through less important stations, stopping only at larger hubs. Orzetto 14:54, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- "There is no immediate connection between espresso and speed".
- I don't think that is correct. See for instance the online dictionary at sapere.it (http://www.sapere.it/gr/DictionarySearchServlet?DS_action=Init) (you can use username Asbestos and password A87Y47O8). Definition #2: Veloce, Rapido. Examples: "treno espresso", "corrispondenza che viene recapitata in modo più rapido del normale". While I agreed with you above that this comes from the Latin ex premĕre (had you read the post you would have seen I had said it), but, as Simpolman notes above, espresso coffee was invented after the Romans. The word in Italian means "quickly" (and is also a past participle of esprimersi), but never, in modern Italian, means "pressed out." Do check out my post above. — Asbestos | Talk 15:37, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I have to insist, "espresso" has no direct connection to speed except the railway analogy. Otherwise, Nescafe would qualify as an espresso, and that is as close to blasphemy as I want to get. Surely coffee was invended after the Romans, otherwise espresso would have had another name (Greek maybe). It was common practice to make new words after latin or greek (and still is to some extent); for instance, the remote control became a "telecomando" (from Greek tele-), and the fridge became "frigorifero", from latin frigor, -is and fero, fers, tuli, latum, ferre, i.e. "bearer of cold" (its culturally deep origins notwithstanding, frigorifero is today the plain word for fridge). As an Italian I can guarantee you that espresso refers to the steam-pressure preparation, and not to the speed. It is true that the word espresso is not currently used in that sense anymore, and is normally used either for "expressed", the coffee or the train - so some Italian might have been misled and told you this.
- On the dictionary side, the de Mauro (http://www.demauroparavia.it/40714) dictionary reports no relation with speed except in the railway and mail context. Orzetto 00:26, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Well, for all my fussing I'm not that attatched. If you want to change it go ahead. I'd recommend you at least reference the other meaning in the intro, though, given the Italian dictionary definitions above of Veloce, Rapido, and the fact that both myself and Marcello above (both Italian) think it's from the word "quickly". — Asbestos | Talk 10:14, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Caffeine content of Arabica vs. Robusta beans.
I thought that Arabica beans had less caffeine content than Robusta beans. Can anyone provide clarification on that? - Nicholas
Yes, that's true, but Arabica is considered to taste better. Mat-C 13:35, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I have removed History section pending content.Mat-C 13:35, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Extra emoticons
I've noticed a few emoticons sneaking into the article. I've been editing these out when I've spotted them, but I thought it best to raise the issue in case they continue to return. As far as I know emoticons are not usually considered part of a good article.
Emoticons in talk are another matter entirely.. ;)
pjf 00:55, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Stove-top espresso makers
What about the smaller, personal espresso makers (like the kind seen here (http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Espresso_Machines-Bialetti-Moka_Express))? I don't know if there is another name for them besides "espresso maker", but it's quite different and should probably be included here. You find them in almost every Italian home (the idea of having bar-like steam espresso makers in the home is very American). I don't know where one could find a usable photo, though, not having a digital camera myself. — Asbestos | Talk 10:54, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- It's popularly called a Moka, but that's really a brand name. More formally, it's called a machinetta (da fare il caffè). 23 Feb 2005
They are not properly espresso makers, except for some poor (or good, depending on how you see it) English marketing. I've edited to reflect this. Please check the article on moka, this Coffee FAQ: http://coffeefaq.com/coffaq2.htm#MochaP and this FAQ on espresso: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.drink.coffee/msg/549d841ce331bc95?oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
Espresso requires 9 atmospheres of pressure to have the proper emulsion of oils and proteins to form proper crema (as per the article). No crema is formed from a moka pot, which maxes out at 1-2 atmospheres of pressure. 69.195.70.145 00:58, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I very much disagree. In Italy, every family has a moka, and everyone calls this espresso. It's a very American idea that the only way you can make "true" espresso is with a steam-pressured bar-like espresso maker. People were making espressos long before anyone started talking about "atmospheres" and such.
- However, since you are set in your ideas, having changed the article twice, I've asked for a second opinion at it:Discussione:Caffè. I'll await their reply.
- — Asbestos | Talk 13:01, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- At the italian wikipedia they agree with you, so I'll withdraw from my position. — Asbestos | Talk 15:37, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"Expresso" in USA?
I have lived in the East (Connecticut, Pennsylvania), the Midwest (Illinois, Iowa, Kansas), and the West (Wyoming, Arizona). In none of these places is this use common, although it is heard occasionally from careless English speakers. I have never seen the word spelled this way on a menu. Such misuses do not merit mention in an encyclopedia article. (You would not include President Bush's mispronunciation of "nucular" in an article about nuclear energy.) Thus I removed the phrase in the article saying that the use is common. Perhaps it is used in a region I am not familiar with. If so, please indicate the place(s). --Blainster 06:27, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
according to dictionary.com, expresso is a variant of espresso http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=expresso