Talk:Cronus

The picture is entirely inappropriate. I've never heard of Cronus being depicted in this manner, and googling (http://images.google.com/images?q=Cronus&ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search) reveals a plethora of images which look very unlike it. Do you have a source for him being a malevolent, hooded, lithe, beardless man of indeterminate age with a fiery scythe? Placing this image here makes it appear as though that was how he was depicted in ancient Greece and is misleading, even if there are a few exceptions, because that was not how he was depicted. Tuf-Kat 04:24, Jan 9, 2004 (UTC)

This sketch looks really silly. And besides, it's overlaying the text. RickK 04:27, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It was not overlaying text. Someone messed with the image and caused that problem.

It is not inappropriate. It is not vulgar, sexually demonstrative, and depicts no graphic representation of violence. Other users have voiced clear support of it. The fact thay you have never heard of Cronus being depicted in a certain way is not my problem nor the problem of any Wikipedia users. Most sites only post images of Cronus that fit with other greek reliefs, in which he is a bearded man with a cloak and either a sickle or similar implement. Yet I have often seen pictures of Cronus in which he looks very much as depicted in the illustration I provided. The fact that another user immediately corrected you the last time you suggested that should have been enough. The character was not depicted as molevolent and actually even in the more common depictions of Cronus he had both a sickle or scythe and was hooded.

And contrary to what the original author is suggesting Cronus (Saturn) was associated with time by many Greek authors who used the character. Some Greek authors chose to differentiate Cronus into two distinct identities, but most did not.

Gee. I see a lot of unattributed talk here. Good thing I ignore unattributed text... - UtherSRG 19:46, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Why? It's not hard to figure out who wrote it... even if you are being sarcastic. ehh I dunno. Evil saltine 19:48, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, it was sarcasm. I read it all and decided to ignore it anyway. I didn't see anything worth commenting on. The image is incorrect for use (as are the other two images the 'unknown' author is trying to add to African Grey Parrot and Bigfoot. They are all obviously original creations. The one on this article is the worst of the lot based upon the dialogue. There are plenty of other Bigfoot images that are in the public domain that could be used on that article, and there is already a photo on the parrot article. - UtherSRG 19:55, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Lizard King, this is an encyclopedia. As such, we must present information on Cronus in a complete fashion. I am not an expert on Greek mythology, but my understanding has always been that Cronus and Chronos are two different concepts that have been conflated in relatively recent times due to the linguistic similarities. If you do not believe this is true, please cite some scholarly source so that the information can be presented in accordance with Wikipedia's NPOV policies.

In addition, all that I have ever read about Cronus claimed he was an old, rather thickly built, clearly human male with a flowing beard, regal demeanor and a cloak and scythe. I have occasionally seen him hooded, though his face is always clearly visible and, as a matter, of fact, I believe his cloak does not cover his expansive barrel-chest. Can you cite a scholarly source that describes him as any of the following:

• Demonic or malevolent in appearance, and seemingly non-human
• Thin to the point of appearing almost skeletal
• Hooded so that the face is obscured
• Without a long, flowing beard
• Carrying a fiery scythe

It is not inappropriate. It is not vulgar, sexually demonstrative, and depicts no graphic representation of violence. There are plenty of images that would be inappropriate for this article that are not vulgar, sexual or violent. Images of John Lennon playing the piano, for example, or of the Pyramids at Giza, or of Santa Claus. Tuf-Kat 20:35, Jan 9, 2004 (UTC)

Other users have voiced clear support of it. PMC said he liked the sketch -- as do I. It's quite a nice drawing, but that does not make it an informative likeness of Cronus. PMC's support does not make it a non-issue. Tuf-Kat

The fact thay you have never heard of Cronus being depicted in a certain way is not my problem nor the problem of any Wikipedia users. Yes it is. We work on consensus at Wikipedia. As a result, you must be willing to justify your edits or have them removed. It is a problem for other users as well because they will assume that a picture of Cronus in an article on Cronus depicts Cronus as he was normally depicted. Tuf-Kat

Most sites only post images of Cronus that fit with other greek reliefs, in which he is a bearded man with a cloak and either a sickle or similar implement. Yet I have often seen pictures of Cronus in which he looks very much as depicted in the illustration I provided. To be frank, I do not believe you have ever seen Cronus depicted as you drew him. Feel free to prove me wrong. Tuf-Kat

The fact that another user immediately corrected you the last time you suggested that should have been enough. I think you misread PMC's comment. Even if he was extremely vocal in his support for the drawing, sources need to be cited as I have done with the google link above. Tuf-Kat

The character was not depicted as molevolent and actually even in the more common depictions of Cronus he had both a sickle or scythe and was hooded I agree wholeheartedly that he was not depicted as malevolent in ancient Greece. I also agree that he usually carried a sickle or a scythe and that he was sometimes hooded. Tuf-Kat

P.S. Please sign your posts using three tildes (~~~) or four to place the date and time after your name, as in Tuf-Kat 20:35, Jan 9, 2004 (UTC).

1) The african grey parrot was added because the picture already there did not depict a clear profile of the bird.

This is the talk page for Cronus. Take it to Talk:African Grey Parrot. Tuf-Kat

2) The image of cronus was removed and replaced with an actual greek relief of cronus and you again removed it saying that it was a homemade sketch.

I certainly didn't, and don't know if someone else did. My concern is now the image's copyright status. The issue of sketches, drawings or photographs of public domain resources has always confused me, but I believe copyright still applies. Tuf-Kat

3) The image of bigfoot was absolutely appropriate and it obvious that you are going out of your way to deface anything I touch on here merely as a personal attack. I contacted other wikipedia users about the sasquatch image and a few changed it back for me only to have you remove it again.

I assume you are talking to Uther here. In any case, please take it to Talk:Bigfoot. Tuf-Kat

So, I will compromise thus, I will leave the image of cronus and the parrot out, as there are arguably reasons to leave them out. However, the bigfoot image is hurting no one and is appreciated by many Wikipedia users who will only be robbed of a pleasurable experience by your removing it.

Thank you.

The three images are unrelated. Please discuss the remaining issue at Talk:Bigfoot. Tuf-Kat 21:19, Jan 9, 2004 (UTC)

Please learn to sign your posts as instructed by TUF-KAT above. To continue to make posts unattributed indicates you do not wish to be a conscientuous member of Wikipedia.

To address your points:

1. A better fix would be to find a clear image of an African Grey Parrot and replace the one that exists. An unclear image and a sketch are inferior to one clear image. Further discussion of this should be taken to talk:African_Grey_Parrot

2. I apologize for removing the Greek image from Cronus. At that point I was simply working at keeping your very poor representation of Cronus off of the article. As you can see, I've moved the image to the top and given it a label.

3. The image of bigfoot *is* unacceptable. I've replaced it with an image from the Patterson-Gimlin film. Further discussion of this should be taken to talk:bigfoot

You seem to not understand the purpose of Wikipedia. It is not to provide users with a pleasurable experience. It is an online encyclopedia an is meant to be informative, not entertaining. - UtherSRG 21:22, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

We've had problems with 65.35.69.180 (to whom UtherSRG is responding) before. See User talk:Michael Rawdon for some previous observations (on 13 December 2003 he added a huge amount of text to Santa Claus simply as a joke). He never signs his posts, either, and is rather hostile in his modification comments (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&target=65.35.69.180) (when he bothers to use any). -mhr 22:31, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The "homemade scketch" appears to be an accurate archeological drawing of an actual relief carving which illustrates a Greek story about Rhea handing the stone as a child substitute to Cronus, as described in the article. See [1] (http://web.otenet.gr/everyd/cronus.html) and our article text. Jamesday 10:57, 10 Jan 2004 (UTC)

If you mean the picture in the article currently, it's not what is being discussed above. (UtherSRG accidentally referred to it as such in the page history during a revert, but he knows it isn't) The original image is at Image:Cronoz2c.jpg. Tuf-Kat 15:38, Jan 10, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks - I was referring to the wrong (current) image, Cronuspc.jpg. Cronoz2c.jpg is interesting. We may need such images drawn by Wikipedia contributors in some cases but for historic articles where we can use images of the period, it's probably better to use them instead of new creative works to illustrate things. I wonder if User:Lizard king would be interested in fulfilling requests for drawn illustrations for articles which need them? Jamesday 03:36, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Would it be appropriate to add the famous painting by Goya of Saturn/Cronus devouring a son? I admit that it involves some violent imagery. (See fr:Cronos and it:Crono.) -- Emsworth 21:25, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Saturn separated out from Cronos

Saturn and Cronos were often identified -- incorrectly -- in antiquity. I have moved the Saturn content (which is admittedly incomplete) to its own article, where I discuss the problem with this identification. Macrakis 17:09, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)