Talk:Cannabis
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Old talk moved to Talk:Cannabis/Archive 1 Talk:Cannabis/Archive 2
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Article should be at Cannabis
There are 3 types of cannabis, Cannabis Sativa, Cannabis Indica, and Cannabis Ruderalis. The first 2 are the kinds that are generally smoked. The article for cannabis in general is at Cannabis Sativa, and should be moved here. The differences between Sativa and Indica are that sativas are from tropical environments and have longer growing seasons. Indicas have bigger and darker leaves. The high for sativas is more energetic, and the high for indicas is more sedative. Conwiki 02:49, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Cannabis (drug): drug or psychoactive drug?
If the focus of Cannabis (drug) is restricted to the use of plant products as psychoactive drugs then the article's title is too broad, and should be Cannabis (psychoactive drugs). Laurel Bush 12:41, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC).
Cannabis-related health issues
Cannabis: Health issues, Cannabis (drug) and Medical marijuana: all seem to represent competing perspectives on cannabis-related health issues. Laurel Bush 15:55, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC).
Factual accuracy
Anonymous user 68.251.56.116 put a disputed note disputing the accuracy of this article with no explanation or discussion on this page of why they did so. I have removed it. If anyone wants to replace it please state which part of the accuracy of this article is in dispute. I have also added an extra paragraph to the long term effects on the mind and brain, which was entirely one sided, wrongly implying that the only effects of cannabis on mind and brain are negative. Squiquifox 21:16, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Removed parts
First, the new section on spiritual use needs to be less vague and have some supporting sources (presented here in the Talk page, not in the article).
The following does not integrate into the article and repeats several things that are already in the article. Nevertheless, there ought to be a brief synopsis of the relevant information in cannabinoids and a pointer to that article (Main article:) in a new section.
- Marijuana is a drug with a mixed history. Mention it to one person, and it will conjure images of potheads lost in a spaced-out stupor. To another, it may represent relaxation, a slowing down of modern madness. To yet another, marijuana means hope for cancer patients suffering from the debilitating nausea of chemotherapy, or it is the promise of relief from chronic pain. The drug is all these things and more, for its history is a long one, spanning millennia and continents. It is also something everyone is familiar with, whether they know it or not. Everyone grows a form of the drug, regardless of their political leanings or recreational proclivities. That is because the brain makes its own marijuana, natural compounds called endocannabinoids (after the plant's formal name, Cannabis sativa).
- The study of endocannabinoids in recent years has led to exciting discoveries. By examining these substances, researchers have exposed an entirely new signaling system in the brain: a way that nerve cells communicate that no one anticipated even 15 years ago. Fully understanding this signaling system could have far-reaching implications. The details appear to hold a key to devising treatments for anxiety, pain, nausea, obesity, brain injury and many other medical problems. Ultimately such treatments could be tailored precisely so that they would not initiate the unwanted side effects produced by marijuana itself.
- Reference: taken from the Scientific American Magazine December 2004 article by Roger A. Nicoll and Bradley E. Alger
The following is not related to long-term effects and is vague as to not warrant inclusion in an encyclopedia:
- There has been little or no research into the benefits and positive effects of cannabis use on the brain, though many users do report an increase in the ability of the brain to perform in certain ways, and particularly to self-reflect. In many traditional cultures cannabis has been taken in order to stimulate mental activity. A significant number of cannabis users report the positive effect of this substance on enhancing brain activity, but as yet there is no evidence to associate cannabis use with increased intelligence.
- Centrx 21:45, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Spiritual use
This is a stub at the moment, but I cannot say that about an individual section. I do think it should stay, will try to expand it, and hope others do so as well. RE Mind and Brain I am concerned about the bias in this section that implies cannabis only has negative effects on the mind and the brain. Perhaps the whole section needs re-writing! I will try to get something solid together before doing so, and recognise I was being vague. Squiquifox 00:38, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) I have changed chronic for long-term and added dreams to tolerance and withdrawal section, both in order to get the article to have a neytral POV, something lacking in sections of this article.Squiquifox 13:35, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Depression is not a disease
Nowhere in clinical depression does it state that depression is a disease, and I have removed the comments implying that it is a disease from the Mind and Brain section of this article, as well as trying to make it come from a more balanced and neutral point of view. Mental aberration has been removed as well. Squiquifox 13:55, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Please cite your sources
Please add your sources (at least on this page) so that we can check that your changes are substantial. Otherwise your contributions might get reverted. Cacycle 14:53, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Squiquifox: PLEASE start to provide links and references so what we can check your sometimes obscure edits. And please add a change summary before submitting.
Recent changes
Increased appetite (colloquially known as "the munchies")
- As this is an encyclopedia article, I think it best if it slang is not scattered around the article in otherwise scientific information, so such slang should instead be in the Common Slang section.
Chronic effects of human consumption vs. Long-term effects of human consumption
- Chronic has a specific meaning of long-continuing or lingering effects that are a result of frequent recurrent use. This is apt for this section because the effects delineated in the section are a result of such chronic use rather than simply long-term effects of usage of any frequency, and the section doesn't only cover long-term effects, it also covers medium-term effects of tolerance and withdrawal.
Tolerance, withdrawal and dreams
- REM rebound is a result of psychological withdrawal, and is only a very tiny mention in the section and so is already sufficiently covered by the former title. Further, what more was added about dreams is simply in excess, a repetition of what was already said, that the REM rebound is a result of cessation after heavy use.
Long-term effects on the mind and brain
- The statements added to this section require some sources, to be presented here, to back them up. After extensive perusal of PubMed it was clear that regular use of cannabis causes a diminishment of cognitive performance in the medium-term (within a month), and that this was indeed an effect on most persons and was certainly a diminishment in certain areas of cognitive performance, not just an appearance of one. Also, "subjective evidence" has no place in an encyclopedia.
Common slang
- I had removed mids and regs because these are simple abbreviations (the first is actually not even an abbreviation) which are not used in any special sense, and so do not qualify as slang. They mean precisely what the words "mid" and "regular" mean.
- Centrx 20:01, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Centrix, as I wrote in your talk page I feel that "mids" and "regs" are legitimate additions to the common slang section. By your logic, "dro"-- since it is an abbreviated form of hyDROponics-- would also not qualify for the slang section and that would be incorrect. While the definition of mids and regs may be apparent to some and not appropriate for the slang section, I can think of countless circumstances in just the New York region where these terms have been used in a general way to describe types of cannabis different from potent strains. Howrealisreal 20:58, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Howrealisreal: Actually it does not make much sense to me to have such a large collection of slang here. I really don't care that much how you and your friends call different types of Cannabis products or effects. If people from all over the world (remember, en.wikipedia is not US only!) would add their drug scene slang here, the page would rapidly exceed > 32kB. Additionally, nobody benefits from such a collection because the slang is rapidly changing and usually restricted to a very small region or group of people. Cacycle 22:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Centrx: I would like to see your suggested changes on the article's page as soon as possible. Cacycle 22:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Well, I agree that there has to be some line drawn in the sand about what is "encyclopedic" about regional slang. The terms that I contributed I thought were pretty common. You can make your edits now and I don't really care, but I would like to warn that with pretty much all language open to interpretation in terms of appropriateness, the common slang section will forever need to be patrolled. --Howrealisreal 02:58, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
NPOV
Cacycle, slang names have nothing to do with meSquiquifox 02:25, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC), as you would know if you had checked. The Cannabis article is already too long. Perhaps the slang section could be made into a separate article, allowing Howrealisreal more editing freedom.
Centrix, you are not addressing the issue of neutral point of view in your suggested reverts to my changes. While we need to keep our own subjective feelings out of this encyclopedia, to keep subjective evidence out of it is a very sweeping statement that I for one think is wrong. Stating such scientific conclusions as those re cognitive effects of cannabis as proven fact without the possibility of an opposing view does not reflect the debate on this issue taking place in the wider world or the lack of a variety of scientific studies into the subject. Remember Wikipedia is not a scientific encyclopedia. Wikipedia needs to reflect human experience as well. The word chronic has very negative connotations, and is inappropriate for an NPOV. If you don't like long term find a neutral word. I really think if you are not happy with what I have done you need to make changes that address the issue of NPOV, because if you revert what I have done the article will not conform to a NPOV, in my view.Squiquifox 02:25, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Proposed Common slang article
I propose that the Common slang section is made into a separate article in order to address the overweight problem of this article. It seems the best section of the article to do this with, in my opinion. If you disagree and would like to see a different section removed to another article please say s make much sense to me to have such a large collection of slang here. I really don't care that much how you and your friends call different types of Cannabis products or effects. If people from all over the world (remember, en.wikipedia is not US only!) would add their drug scene slang here, the page would rapidly exceed > 32kB. Additionally, nobody benefits from such a collection because the slang is rapidly changing and usually restricted to a very small region or group of people. Cacycle 22:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Centrx: I would like to see your suggested changes on the article's page as soon as possible. Cacycle 22:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Well, I agree that there has to be some line drawn in the sand about what is "encyclopedic" about regional slang. The terms that I contributed I thought were pretty common. You can make your edits now and I don't really care, but I would like to warn that with pretty much all language open to interpretation in terms of appropriateness, the common slang section will forever need to be patrolled. --Howrealisreal 02:58, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
NPOV
Cacycle, slang names have nothing to do with meSquiquifox 02:25, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC), as you would know if you had checked. The Cannabis article is already too long. Perhaps the slang section could be made into a separate article, allowing Howrealisreal more editing freedom.
Centrix, you are not addressing the issue of neutral point of view in your suggested reverts to my changes. While we need to keep our own subjective feelings out of this encyclopedia, to keep subjective evidence out of it is a very sweeping statement that I for one think is wrong. Stating such scientific conclusions as those re cognitive effects of cannabis as proven fact without the possibility of an opposing view does not reflect the debate on this issue taking place in the wider world or the lack of a variety of scientific studies into the subject. Remember Wikipedia is not a scientific encyclopedia. Wikipedia needs to reflect human experience as well. The word chronic has very negative connotations, and is inappropriate for an NPOV. If you don't like long term find a neutral word. I really think if you are not happy with what I have done you need to make changes that address the issue of NPOV, because if you revert what I have done the article will not conform to a NPOV, in my view.Squiquifox 02:25, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Proposed Common slang article
I propose that the Common slang section is made into a separate article in order to address the overweight problem of this article. It seems the best section of the article to do this with, in my opinion. If you disagree and would like to see a different section removed to another article please say so here. This article is overweight so please address the issue in this context;unfortunately something has to go. Squiquifox 14:33, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I second this. I think that some of the most notable and common of the slang should remain in the Cannabis article, but there should also be a link at the top of the section to an additional main article that strictly deals with Cannabis vernacular. That way people can freely contribute without cluttering the main page. --Howrealisreal 14:50, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I object against a slang page, Wikipedia is not a slang or idiom guide. Cacycle 15:35, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'd suggest to split off Cannabis_(drug) (similar to Ecstasy_(drug)) and Cannabis_(law) (similar to RICO_(law), Custom_(law), Brief_(law), Sentence_(law), Agency_(law), Hearing_(law), Prejudice_(law), and Minor_(law)). Cacycle 17:07, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- After reading the Wikipedia is not a dictionary article, I suggest moving the bulk of the Common Slang section to something more appropriate like Wiktionary_Appendix:Cannabis Slang that can list language with links to individual dictionary articles to define each word. --Howrealisreal 20:19, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I have moved the slang section minus it's warning to Wiktionary_Appendix:Cannabis Slang. Unfortunately there is still a weight problem. Cannabis (law) is covered in Legal issues of cannabis, and is anyway a small section. Where is the least painful cut to be? Squiquifox 02:18, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Squiquifox: Thank You. I went ahead and moved the slang from the Wiktionary_Appendix page you cr
Proposal to rearrange the Cannabis articles
There is much confusion about various terms. For example, cannabis is the scientific name for hemp and marihuana is not another name for the plant, it's the dried flowers of the plant. Furthermore, it would help if readers understand from the start what the different uses of the plant are (eg, that hemp rope and hashish come from the same plant). I've written a proposal to clarify all this in one page, based on this disambiguation page, and then rearrange (and partly rewrite) the articles accordingly, at Talk:Hemp#Two articles or one.3F. Not the most logical place for it, but it started as a reaction to another posting. I added a horizontal line to mark the spot. I suggest you place any comments there, to keep everything together. DirkvdM 13:10, 2005 May 4 (UTC)
- Marihuana is the (phonetic) mis-spelling of the Mexican slang term marijuana (or also sometimes mariguana), which yes, does primarily refer to the flowers and leaves of the plant, with the proper botanical name of Cannabis Sativa. Hemp is same plant, but generally refers to the fibrous stalk. The adoption of the Mexican slang term marijuana was entirely for the purposes of demonizing and criminalizing the well known hemp plant, which was widely cultivated prior to its prohibition to make rope, canvas, paper, clothing and medicine.
- Today, we use the word hemp to refer to low-THC strains of the plant used strictly for the plant fiber material, and for the nutritious seeds and oil. We use the word cannabis to refer to the high-THC strains used for medicine as well as recreation. The term medical marijuana is generally derogatorily used by those who oppose the medical use of cannabis, akin to referring to the medical use of alcohol as "medicinal booze" (BTW, alcohol is listed as medicinal in the United States Pharmacopoeia.)
- Since marijuana is a slang term, I don't think it should be used as encyclopedic terminology. It may be used quite a bit in North America to refer to cannabis as a drug, but that does not make it correct. Redirecting Marijuana to Cannabis is still the correct action in my opinion. --Thoric 16:36, 4 May 2005 (UTC)