Talk:Alberta

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The following data may be considered:--

CLIMATIC TABLE

Climate	Places	Above the Sea	Mean Winter Temp
(A) Moderate and changeable	Medicine Hat, lat. 50 deg. N.	2171 ft. 651m	14.3 deg. F. -9.8 deg. C
	Calgary, lat. 51 deg.	3432 ft. 1049m	15.4 deg. F. -9.2 C.
	Banff, lat. 51 1/2 deg.	4515 ft. 1355m	15.9 deg. F. -8.9 C.
(B) Steady	Edmonton, lat. 53 1/2 deg.	2210 ft. 663m	10.3 deg. F. -12.0 C.
(C) Severe	Fort Chipewyan, lat. 59 deg. N.	600 ft. 180m	7.2 deg. F -13.8 C

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Temporarily removed from the article until someone can figure out how to include it without &$%@@!ing up the information box. - Montréalais

In the context of this article, I do not see the need to have it. Moderate, steady, and severe are all pretty much POV in any case. Any place you go in Alberta, if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes. It can be warmer in Fort McMurray than in Lethbridge, and chinooks can actually reach as far east as Lloydminster in a good winter. As a native Albertan, I have taken some pain to brush up this article without destroying or erasing your original hard work. Thank yo for an excellent foundation on which to continue. Salut à l'alberta! Denni 08:18, 2004 Apr 21 (UTC)

Contents

1 Where is the criticism 2 Suggest 31 possible wiki links and 10 possible backlinks for Alberta. 3 Franco-Albertans 4 Question 5 Politics

Where is the criticism

This is the richest province in Canada but the government chooses to spend the money on business instead of social programs. You have to pay a fee to use the library for gods sake! boooooooooo 209.197.155.141 04:13, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It's the richest province because the government chooses to support businesses.

• It's the richest province because it's got oil. It also helps that one way to be rich is to squeeze every penny. Just as a frinstance, it has the lowest minimum wage in Canada, and it is one of the few provinces which charges a healthcare premium, which you have to be totally destitute to get out of paying. Denni☯ 03:12, 2005 Mar 3 (UTC)

• There's also very strict wellfare compaired to other provences. I don't like it, but that's democracy. I've lived here (Calgary) long enough to know that enough people in Alberta more or less agree with the way the government is run. I'm not sure if the local oposition could be called notable.

And critisism has to be handled very very carefully in an Encyclopedia. I don't think I would even try, personally - I can distance myself enough from the issues, and I would end up writing stuff that has no place here.

It is notable that Albertain politicians, including Klein, really do kick the dust up on a national level, and I think that should be mentioned somewhere, even if it's not this particular entry. I'll try to see what the other pages have and do some other research. If anyone has any imput though, fell free to message me as a write this. Like I said, this is something that would be very easy to mess up. I'll post a rough draft when it's finnished. Kyle543 20:38, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Suggest 31 possible wiki links and 10 possible backlinks for Alberta.

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Alberta article:

• Can link western Canada: ...in Article: [[Geography of Alberta]]'' '''Alberta''' is in western Canada. Area 661,190 km2 (260,000 mi2) It is bounded to the south... (link to section)
• Can link water skiing: ...rta contains dozens of rivers and lakes ideal for swimming, water skiing, fishing and a full range of other water sports. There are ... (link to section)
• Can link water sports: ...r swimming, water skiing, fishing and a full range of other water sports. There are a multitude of fresh-water lakes each less than ... (link to section)
• Can link fresh-water: ... full range of other water sports. There are a multitude of fresh-water lakes each less than 260 km2 situated in Alberta, and ... (link to section)
• Can link above sea level: .... It is also further influenced by the different altitudes above sea level of the different parts of the province.... (link to section)
• Can link dairy farming: ...n-forested part of Alberta is given over to either grain or dairy farming, with ranching predominantly a southern Alberta industry.... (link to section)
• Can link natural gas: ...st producer of [[conventional crude]], [[synthetic crude]], natural gas and gas products in the country. Two of the largest produc... (link to section)
• Can link oil refineries: ...produce products shipped all over the world, and Edmonton's oil refineries provide the raw materials for a large petrochemical industr... (link to section)
• Can link raw materials: ...l over the world, and Edmonton's oil refineries provide the raw materials for a large petrochemical industry to the east of Edmonton.... (link to section)
• Can link strip mining: ...own and developed. Many companies employ both conventional strip mining and non-convention methods to extract the bitumen from the ... (link to section)
• Can link high-tech: ... effort and support from the provincial government, several high-tech industries have found their birth in Alberta, notably the i... (link to section)
• Can link liquid crystal display: ...r birth in Alberta, notably the invention and perfection of liquid crystal display systems. With a growing economy, Alberta has several finan... (link to section)
• Can link dryland farming: ...ith other [[grain]]s also prominent. Much of the farming is dryland farming, with fallow seasons interspersed with cultivation.... (link to section)
• Can link province of Canada: ...ed with cultivation. Alberta is the leading [[beekeeping]] province of Canada, with some beekeepers wintering [[hive]]s indoors in specia... (link to section)
• Can link Legislative Assembly: ...liamentary]] [[democracy]]. It consists of one house -- the Legislative Assembly -- of 83 members. The government is headed by the [[Premie... (link to section)
• Can link oil sands: ..., which continues to [[Fort McMurray]], the location of the oil sands.... (link to section)
• Can link Trans-Canada Highway: ...main east-west corridors.The southern corridor, part of the Trans-Canada Highway system, enters the province near [[Medicine Hat, Alberta|Me... (link to section)
• Can link Icefields Parkway: ...ay, one of the most scenic drives in the world is along the Icefields Parkway, which runs some 300 km between Jasper and Banff, with... (link to section)
• Can link mountain ranges: ... which runs some 300 km between Jasper and Banff, with mountain ranges and glaciers on either side of its entire length.... (link to section)
• Can link cultural diversity: ...tage Days -- just to name a few -- highlight the province's cultural diversity and love of entertainment. Most of the major cities have s... (link to section)
• Can link Pacific Coast League: ...e played professionally in Alberta. However, Alberta's last Pacific Coast League [[baseball]] team, the [[Edmonton Trappers]], left the prov... (link to section)
• Can link night life: ...nicknamed Edmonton 'Deadmonton' for its lack of culture and night life. He later changed his mind after being given a tour by the... (link to section)
• Can link self-reliance: ...symbol to many Albertans of the province's independence and self-reliance. Only an hour's drive from the [[Rocky Mountains]], Calgary... (link to section)
• Can link far north: ...[History of Alberta]]'' The present province of Alberta as far north as 53°N latitude was a part of [[Rupert's Land]] from the t... (link to section)
• Can link of Montreal: ...at is now of Calgary in ([[1752]]). The North-West Company of Montreal occupied the northern part of Alberta territory before the ... (link to section)
• Can link Hudson Bay: ...erta territory before the Hudson's Bay Company arrived from Hudson Bay to take possession of it. The first explorer of the Athaba... (link to section)
• Can link North Saskatchewan River: ...basca]] ten years later in [[1788]]. Mackenzie followed the North Saskatchewan River to its northernmost extent near Edmonton, then setting nort... (link to section)
• Can link Athabasca River: ...ar Edmonton, then setting northward on foot, trekked to the Athabasca River, which he followed to Lake Athabasca. It was there he disco... (link to section)
• Can link Mackenzie River: ...iscovered the mighty outflow river which bears his name the Mackenzie River, which he followed to its outlet in the Arctic Ocean. Retur... (link to section)
• Can link critical element: ... behaved like the white men, and by removing the buffalo, a critical element of native culture, thought they could do so. Since then, bu... (link to section)
• Can link Saskatchewan River: ...bs grow in virtually any terrain. On the north side of the Saskatchewan River evergreen forests prevail for hundreds of thousands of squa... (link to section)

Additionally, there are some other articles which may be able to linked to this one (also known as "backlinks"):

• In Insulin, can backlink Alberta, Canada: ...'prone to failure') for many years, but some researchers in Alberta, Canada, have developed techniques which have produced a much highe...
• In Ptilodus, can backlink Alberta, Canada: ...nian (late Paleocene) mammals from Cochrane 2, southwestern Alberta, Canada. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 47 (4), p.691-704.<br>...
• In Mesodma, can backlink Alberta, Canada: ...aea'' Place: Gidley Quarry, Montana, as well as Wyoming and Alberta, Canada...
• In Baiotomeus, can backlink Alberta, Canada: ...nian (late Paleocene) mammals from Cochrane 2, southwestern Alberta, Canada. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 47 (4), p.691-704.<p>...
• In Canadian federal election, 2004, can backlink ALBERTA: ... in 2000. (Results are after approx. 99% of polls closed) ALBERTA (99.7% of polls reporting)...
• In Thunderbolt (New South Wales), can backlink Alberta, Canada: ...ncisco. When the gold petered out in California he moved to Alberta, Canada where he stayed until the end of the gold rush there in the...
• In Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, can backlink Alberta, Canada: ... and comedy skit group from [[Edmonton, Alberta|Edmonton]], Alberta, Canada....
• In Raphael Louis Zengel, can backlink Alberta, Canada: ...dstone can be found at Pine Cemetery, Rocky Mountain House, Alberta, Canada. ...
• In Raymond U. Lemieux, can backlink Alberta, Canada: ...emieux'' was born on June 16, [[1920]] in [[Lac La Biche]], Alberta, Canada. His family moved to [[Edmonton, Alberta]] in [[1926]]. H...
• In Alexander Picton Brereton, can backlink Alberta, Canada: ...ant]]. Grave/memorial at Buried at Elnora Cemetery, Elnora, Alberta, Canada. Headstone. ...

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:34, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You'd definitely need to check them. "Far North" at this link, for instance, is a regional authority in New Zealand :) [[User:Grutness|Grutness ^talk Missing image
Grutness.jpg
]

] 06:53, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Franco-Albertans

The original article stated that Alberta has the largest francophone population west of Ontario and that Albertans are familiar with Bonhomme de Carnival and poutine. So very, very wrong. I've been editing it out and for some reason people keep putting it back in so if your using this article for research, ignore that part - it is grossly inaccurate. First of all, the largest francophone population west of Ontario in Manitoba. Furthermore, there aren't many actual francophones in Alberta and their effect on Albertan culture is slight. You can get poutine at McDonalds, but not at most restaurants and having a familiarity with Bonhomme de Carnaval would be absurd as there is no major well-known event here with a Bonhomme de Carnaval (nor one entirely in French for that matter).

I agree with you that that passage gave a misleading view of the French presence in Alberta, but surprisingly enough, Alberta does have more francophones than Manitoba: see Language in Canada#Geographic distribution. However, it's the percentage that really counts, so that fact is misleading also. Indefatigable 15:04, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps you can't get poutine at most restaurants. I expect the same is true in Quebec. It's a fast food, and is available as such at more than just MacDonald's in Alberta. It's also a bit disingenuous to write off Albertans' knowledge of Bonhomme de Carnaval because there are no major well-known events which feature him. To my knowledge, that is true for all provinces except Quebec. L'Association Canadienne-Francaise de l'Alberta will verify the population status of Alberta's francophones: after about 534 000 francophones in Ontario, Alberta is next with 66 000, followed by Manitoba with 48 000. These are individuals whose mother tongue is French - the numbers expand considerably when all French speakers are included, but the proportions do not change. French speakers in Alberta still outrank those of any province but Ontario and Quebec. Denni☯ 16:33, 2005 Mar 17 (UTC)

In response to the replies to my earlier posting on Franco-Albertans, I certainly didn't means to imply that the lack of festivals with a Bonhomme de Carnaval meant that Albertans weren't familiar with the concept. The larger question is why this encyclopedia would consider knowledge of that concept or familiarity with poutine as a fast food item as valid criteria for intimate knowledge of Francophone culture (as the article seems to imply). The whole country is technically familiar with poutine. As for the Bonhomme de Carnival, you can't turn on CBC in winter without some footage of the Carnival in Quebec or the Fete des Neiges in Montreal. But unless its happening where you are in a widespread, culturally impactful manner its illogical to imply (as this article does) that such knowledge makes your home province francophone-savvy.

But the more important issue is one of Francophone population. I stand corrected regarding the point on Manitoba's francophone population compared to Alberta. Despite the fact that Manitoba tourism markets the province as having the largest Francophone population west of Ontario this is not the case, according to the last census figures. We could argue over whether the term Francophone actually equals having French as your mother tongue (this encyclopedia doesn't define it as such - check for yourself) but any way you slice it, Alberta leads the West in numbers alone. Cultural impact is another story, as it is hard to buy this article's implication that the roughly 2% of Francophones in Alberta have a significant cultural impact on the province. Parts of it sure, but the entire province?

But this article, in its most recent re-write, now has much bigger problems. It asserts that "Alberta also benefits from having the largest Francophone population outside of Quebec and Ontario." OUCH. Tell that to New Brunswick, where according to 2001 census figures, 239,357 people speak French as their mother tongue (not counting the bilingual and those who adopted the language for everyday use)! Compare that to Alberta's 58,825 (2001 Census). Everybody seems to forget about the poor Acadians, now they're even taking a back seat to the Franco-Albertans! Glib cultural assertions and hastily given superlatives do not an encyclopedia make.

Oh, and one more thing. Say you're looking for information on a certain web browser and the company tells you "its the second most popular browser on the market." Wouldn't you consider that information irrelevant and downright misleading, although factual, if you found out the number one browser accounted for 91% of the market? Logically speaking, the implication of significant impact makes that kind of statement inaccurate even if technically true. The same applies for the statement in this article.

• St. Albert. Morinville. Plamondon. Beaumont. Lac la Biche. Tell the francophone (in some cases, significantly francophone) residents of these communities that they are "misleading". I think you just might be wearing that poutine if you did. You are quite correct in assailing the statemet that Alberta has the largest francophone population outside of Ontario and Quebec; if you have not reverted that, I will. But the francophone population of Alberta is no small thing, given our status as the redneck kings of Canada. According to Les Rendez-vous de la Francophone, 65, 995 Albertans report French as their mother tongue, while 204 805 people describe themselves as able to speak French. That's not all that far off New Brunswick's 312 285 people able to speak French. I would contend that most of those who speak French have some interest in French culture and activities; I think the browser analogy is spurious - only BC comes remotely close to Alberta as a western province where francophones reside. Denni☯ 22:08, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)

Denni, I think you're missing the point of the analogy. The point is not to deny the existence of francophone culture in Alberta. The point is to recognize it for what it is culturally without extrapolating inaccurate assumptions from it. All the towns you mentioned are perfect examples of localized Francophone culture in Alberta. LOCALIZED, not province-wide. Culture isn't simply in the numbers, it's in the impact. A few points that should be recognized... not everyone who puts on the census that they live in Alberta and their mother tongue is French actually uses the language. You see, unlike Winnipeg, where just outside the big city you can converse in French with locals, Calgary has a heck of a lot of people who can claim French as their mother tongue and haven't used it in decades. It's not a very welcome language outside the core francophone communities here. By your own example the Franco-Albertan cultural impact is localized at best (Northwest, Northeast Alberta). Let's compare Nouveau-Brunswick and Alberta, shall we? Nearly 300,000 (33%) francophones, a century of Acadian 'nationalism' and the entire province becomes bilingual. Nearly 60,000 (2%) francophones and you get... well... what? A strong dose of francophone culture in a select list of small, rural Alberta towns, with a festival or two and a monthly newsletter here in Calgary. That's it and, thats the way it should be said. And as for the bilinguals, taking a course in Business French so you can work at one the many national corporations that are headquartered in Alberta doesn't necessarily give you special knowledge of or affinity for francophone culture, expecially not local francophone culture. [Heck, the cultural focal point of most French textbooks is either Paris or Montreal.] On a side note, Manitoba comes after Alberta in the West in terms of Francophone culture (as well as in numbers) It exceeds Alberta in provincial percentage at 4.4%. Until the boom in Alberta's population it used to be THE place in the West to be a Francophone (probably still is culturally speaking). There the roots of Francophone culture run deep with an impact only time and a long history of local cultural achievements can bring. British Columbia!? Shush, I think I hear Gabrielle Roy - the famous Franco-Manitoban writer - spinning in her grave.

That being said, I would say the most current rewrite is fair (or as fair as its gonna get). Although one has to wonder why this article reaches to discuss the one of slightest of Francophone minorities in the first place when the culture section is oddly silent about Alberta's large (and also localized) cultural minorities from Asia. Calgary has one of the largest Chinatowns in Canada. I guess that's not relevant compared to a 2% francophone population. Propaganda anyone?

• Cultural viability does not depend on approval of the Anglo community for validity. The franco-Albertan community in St. Albert is not divorced from that in Calgary - they are tied together by common goals and common media. The culture is, in fact, province-wide. Crystal Plamondon belongs to all Alberta. It is just significantly subordinate to the anglo culture. To deny a francophone culture here, and to wipe it from this article, is to do a major disservice to a small but significant component of our population. I do not deny that there are gaps in this article - yes, the Chinese community does need to be recognised, as does the East Indian community. But that they are not here is not a carte blanche to remove any reference to the French community. Au contraire, IMO. By the way, it would be really good if you could sign your comments - (four tildes - ~~~~) so that I know with whom I'm debating.

I never came close to ever suggesting Franco-Albertans should be blotted from this article or from any other kind of public recognition. I merely (sarcastically) wondered out loud why they have gotten preference over most other minorities, visible or otherwise, in this article. I never said anything about the Anglo community. You are right, they have nothing to do with the cultural viability or legitimacy of Franco-Albertan culture, which is why I'm puzzled that YOU mentioned them as a reference point; I certainly did not (up until now). Here's my hypothesis on the matter. Canada is a bilingual country and its political center, due to population distribution and the events of history, happens to be Ontario and Quebec. As a result the Anglo-Franco duality is pushed to the forefront of any discussion of culture or politics in Canada. So much so that even when you investigate the culture of individual parts of the country, say a province for example, that paradigm is layered over any cultural discussion of the area whether it fits or not. Often we speak first of the Anglo-Canadians, second of the Francophones and anyone else only as time permits. This often takes the place of a more objective study of culture which would devote time and attention based on the raw numbers, cultural impact, and contributions to larger society of specific cultures. History is written by the victors, and while some might argue the Francophones of Canada are certainly not the winners of history, they at least always get mentioned. What Indians? What Asians? Where in Alberta? Try as you might, you won't find them in this article (or most other places).

I live in Calgary and for the most part Francophones in this part of the province have very different goals and very different media compared to rural, French Alberta. Their cultural compass is more likely to point to the east than to the north. And as much as I would like to see Alberta as a utopian cultural paradise where each minority culture truly belongs to 'all of Alberta,' I'm sorry but I can't simply toss out the facts of Albertan life for the sake of sentimental opinion. Try to get someone in Olds or Nanton to speak French with you. Better yet move there, and start the country's smallest Francophone cultural organization. I've got the perfect name for it, "Tout Seul," cause that what you'll be in that part of the province. True Francophone strength is better found in the facts rather than the sentiments. A friend of mine recently had to go up to the great northern Francophone parts of this province to meet with fellow farmers as a part of a farmer's group. The first question from those assembled was, "Will you answer our questions in French?" My friend didn't know French but was kind enough to find someone to serve as a translator. He had been asked plenty of thorny questions in his days, but he had never been asked that question before. In Southern Alberta, it just wasn't a language or a culture he had ever had to contend with. But crossing the cultural borders of the North, he had been compelled to recognize its very existence as well as its strength in that part of the province. Yes, Franco-Albertan culture is a part of Alberta. Yes, it belongs to all Albertans in some existential, philosophical, Zen kind of way. Is it a province-wide phenomenon? No. And it certainly doesn't deserve to carry more weight than any other minority culture in the province, especially those that outnumber it. As for Crystal Plamondon, she's a great artist, but every community has its leaders, its artists, its heroes. Her existence doesn't magically 'Frenchify' the rest of the province or country, even if it does bring honor and recognition to her community. Oh, and if you really want to know who you're debating with, you're talking to a former Montrealais, big city Albertan, expert on Canadian History. : ) Audentis

• I appreciate the thought which went into your comments. I have modified the sentence to include reference to other ethnic minorities, and will attempt to track down some figures on the sizes of various groups in the province. Denni☯ 22:17, 2005 Apr 15 (UTC)

I would love to put an end to the Francophone discussion. According to StatsCan, Manitoba has a higher proportion of Francophones than does Alberta. This is FACT and should not be a surprise to anyone. Any demographer or statistician will tell you that PROPORTIONS are far more important than shear numbers when discussing ethnicity. Proportionally, Manitoba has double Alberta's Francophone pop. PERIOD. This is not to say that I am undermining Alberta's French community (a strange argument indeed). It is simply MORE statistically relevant. Alberta has the second highest proportion of Francophones in western Canada, and I think that's pretty impressive in itself. To say we are first is simply manipulating the statistics. There. Can we all put an end to this?

• Denni: You will also note that Les Rendez-vous de la Francophonie lists Manitoba as having 4.5% vs. Alberta's 2.1%. It doesn't get more black and white than that. Let's not forget that Alberta has a pop. of about 3.1 million to Manitoba's 1.1. That makes all the difference. You should be very careful how you use statistics.
• In case you had not noted, I stopped arguing with you a while back there. A quick glance at the article will show you I have put the French question in Alberta in perspective with the Germans, the Poles, and the Lithuanians. Well, the Germans at any rate. Denni☯ 00:40, 2005 Apr 19 (UTC)

Question

Is this the proper place for this sort of question? Just wondering what criteria is being used in the ordering of the other major cities and towns in the first paragraph? It appears to be alphabetical at first but it isn't, it isn't in order of size, is there some reason for this?

I would do it using one of these two orderings:

• Banff, Camrose, Fort McMurray, Grande Prairie, Lethbridge, Lloydminster, Medicine Hat, and Red Deer.
• Red Deer, Lethbridge, Fort McMurray, Medicine Hat, Banff, Camrose, Grande Prairie, Lloydminster. (Approximately in order of importance, although obviously this sort of ordering would be open to much debate.)
  • Ordering by name or population are the best methods. --Zippanova 05:20, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Politics

There is currently no mention of the UFA, or the fact the Liberals were Alberta's first government. This needs to be expanded. Thanks. --Zippanova 05:20, 26 May 2005 (UTC)