Talk:12 (number)

This article is part of WikiProject Numbers, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative and easy-to-use resource about numbers. Suggestions for improving multiple articles on numbers and related subjects should go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numbers.

nl:Sjabloon:GetalGesprek

• why does composite link to Prime? --PY

It doesn't link there now!!! -- RTC 06:50 Apr 10, 2003 (UTC)

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I don't think it's correct to say that juries in the U.S. typically have twelve members. I believe that it varies from state to state and from trial to trial. -- Dominus 22:54, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Here's more detailed information about this: for criminal felony trials, 46 states have 12-person juries, as do DC and federal courts. Arizona and Utah have 8-person juries, and Connecticut and Florida have 6-person juries. For misdemeanor trials, 31 states have 12 jurors, as do DC and the federal courts. 17 states have 6 jurors; Ohio has 8, and Virginia 7.

For civil trials, 28 states have 12 jurors. 4 states have 8 jurors. 17 states, DC, and federal courts have 6 jurors. Virginia has 7 again.

So although US juries often have 12 members, they often don't, and I don't think it's correct to say that 12 is typical.

-- Dominus 21:12, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Contents

1 Flagship Number Article 2 Flag of the European Union 3 Duodecimal system 4 colorblind test

Flagship Number Article

This article on the number 12 has been chosen to be the flagship article of Wikipedia:WikiProject Numbers. This selection was in response to the coordinator of WikiProjects that each WikiProject team choose an article to be most representative of their project. PrimeFan 18:36, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Flag of the European Union

Until today, the page said:

Twelve stars are also featured on the flag of the European Union.

The page now says:

Until 1 May 2004, twelve stars were featured on the flag of the European Union.

However, the official graphical specifications for the European Emblem (http://europa.eu.int/abc/symbols/emblem/graphics1_en.htm) say

The number of stars is fixed, twelve being the symbol of perfection and unity.

and

[The stars'] number is invariable.

So unless I've misunderstood, the change in the Wikipedia article would seem to be erroneous.

Thanks for pointing that out to me. Wasn't aware of that, sorry, and they (the news) had other designs lately (like an outer ring with twelve, and an inner ring with 10 stars). But maybe they also didn't read that source... :) --Palapala 22:12, 2004 May 2 (UTC)

Duodecimal system

I'd like to know, for what reason part of this section was deleted lately: "Etymology (Weekley, Skeat) suggests that "twelve" (similar to "eleven") consists of two parts, the first meaning "two" and the second "leftover", so a literal translation would yield "two remaining [after having ten taken]", thus strongly indicating the use of a duodecimal system." --Palapala 07:11, 2004 Jul 1 (UTC)

Sorry, that was my doing. Anyhow, it is "two left over from ten". The word for "twelve" was derived from ten; nothing is derived from twelve itself, as one would expect in a duodecimal system. We continue right along with "thirteen", transparently "three" + "ten", again based on ten. In fact, tracing the etymology all the way back to the Proto-Indo-European language, there are etmya for "ten" (*dekm) and even "hundred" (*kmtom), but no single reconstructible expression for "twelve". So although in specialized uses English may have its "dozens" and "grosses", the core of the language has been decimal as far back as we can reconstruct. Do you know of a source proposing this duodecimal system? 4pq1injbok 02:23, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Did some more reading; agree with you — looks like they have in Lithuanian not only 11 and 12, but 11–19 built the same way [left over from ten] which completely destroys the argument... --Palapala 09:15, 2004 Jul 3 (UTC)

colorblind test

the Ishihara colour test is very interesting, but it seems to me that the standard version of the test doesnt require 12 to be the first plate, the one that everyone can see. Looking at websites and paper encyclopedias i've seen 25 and 52 used too. Numerao 20:15, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

We need to know if Ishihara wrote a standard and if it says anything about which numbers ought or should be used. If the standard does not name specific numbers, then it might still be interesting to note which numbers Ishihara himself used for the test and why he chose them. But if he chose them randomly and the standard makes no recommendation as to which numbers to use, then this should not included in the number articles. Anton Mravcek 19:55, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)