Talk:Xbox 360

Xbox 360 and Dreamcast

Is it just me, or does the Xbox 360 controller look like a rip off of the old Dreamcast controller? The anologue stick, with a digital pad beneath it, ABXY buttons. What do you think? Saxsux 15:11, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

I remember people saying exactly the same thing about the original Xbox controller.Socka tume 15:57, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

I'd say most of the conventional button arrangements have been covered, there's not really much room for innovation, short of the rumoured Nintendo Revolution "buttonless" controller.Tzarius 00:20, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Backward compatibility

Does anyone know what this actually means? Binary backward compatibility sounds highly unlikely given the CPU change -- emulation would probably be infeasible. Are they sure they don't mean that they're going to maintain API backward compatibility so most games can simply be recompiled for the PPC target and re-released as "classic" Xbox games?

They can currently emulate the Xbox in the Xbox360, however there are legal obsticles to be able to emulate certain functionality that the Nvidia GPU and Intel CPU currently offer. Microsoft is in an awkward position because they don't own the designs for all the components of the current Xbox, a mistake they rectified with the 360. In order to offer backwards compatibility on key games Microsoft has 2 choices:

1. License the Nvidia and Intel technologies to emulate the features required to offer backwards compatibility.

2. Preinstall compilied executables for key games right on the hard-drive, and use the assets from the original DVD.

In my opinion if Microsoft did license the emulation capabilities they would offer backwards support for the pretty much the entire collection. This makes it look like they will provide compability executables right on the 360, which could also benefit from things like better frame rates. - TF

It looks like they will be doing it the hard way and emulating the old xbox, this should offer backwards compatibility on the entire xbox collection: Xbox Engineer Blog (http://www.qbrundage.com/michaelb/pubs/essays/xbox360.html)

It is good news, althought there may not be enough time to get all games perfect at launch, expect updates to the emulator through live. - TF

Gamesindustry is now stating that "Current-gen Xbox games to be "recompiled" for Xbox 360", which suggests that Microsoft will go for option 2. This also has the additional advantage of having the games more easily emulated in the future because they would be compilied for a platform they have all the rights to. E3: Xbox 360 "backwards compatibility" explained (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=8996)- Trevor Fuson

Doesn't "recompiled" imply that the games will have to be remade (from the original source code) and rereleased to work on the 360 hardware? Socka tume 17:46, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, part of the recompiled code need to be downloaded on LIVE marketplace service, this code write in the hard disk and you just need insert the Xbox game on drive and waiting few minutes for install.

Not exactly. From what I understand, it's merely a recompiled EXE that has to be downloaded through Live, not an actual recompiled game and the game is not "emulated". Labeling 360 as backward compatible with the original Xbox might be a ploy. My understanding is that Microsoft can't emulate Xbox graphics because Nvidia owns the licenses to the Xbox graphics, meaning that they can't be fully emulated without a royalty. K1Bond007 21:17, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, right, I should've realised that. They can just lift the old PAK files or whatever the Xbox equivalent for audio/textures/models is from the game disk. Socka tume 22:15, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Looks like there won't be recompiling going on: "No, you do not need to recompile your Xbox games (http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/19/no-you-do-not-need-to-recompile-your-xbox-games/)". I hope that is the final word we hear on this one. -TF

This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. This only makes the claim that you won't have to buy the same game again. What I'm saying here is that you take a game like Halo that you own for Xbox already and load it up on Xbox 360. Assuming you haven't done this already -> Xbox Live boots up and goes out and downloads a recompiled EXE onto your Xbox 360's hard drive (assuming again that Microsoft has made this EXE). This EXE then replaces the one that is on the actual game disc, and thus the game is recompiled. Thats how I imagine it to -generally- work and as I said earlier and what that link you posted implies is that 360 will emulate Xbox games. As previously stated, it can't for legal reasons. I could be wrong, I suppose, for both - the 2nd I'm almost positive. K1Bond007 05:54, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

What if you don't have Live?Ablaze 09:09, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

My bet is that the hard drive will come preloaded with only the most popular games such as Halo and Halo 2. Then the rest through Live whenever, if ever, they become available. K1Bond007 15:46, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

They could also be distributed on magazine coverdisks. Socka tume 17:48, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I found another Blog: Matt's Blog (http://fearmattdotcom.blogspot.com/) - Trevor Fuson

"Yeah, I have no idea where the press is getting these rumors, or why they haven’t retracted their stories after Microsoft PR contacted them with corrections. It’s just a complete fabrication. Major Nelson (and the other Microsoft employees) are telling the truth here, the press is not. The Xbox 360 is backwards compatible with Xbox games. We’re not recompiling games (do you think publishers would give us their source code?), which would be a far more complex task than just flipping a switch. And we’re certainly not going to ask anyone to repurchase games they already own (another false rumor I’ve seen in the press). Hope that clears it up, Software Design Engineer Xbox / Microsoft" [1] (http://www.qbrundage.com/michaelb/pubs/essays/xbox360.html) look this.

That is my blog, thank you very much! Yes, I contacted the guy in charge of backwords compatibility, and I left his name out in my post(I wasn't sure...). DoomBringer 03:51, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Source ATI interview (http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8492/Xbox-360-Backward-Compatibility-Details/). Key points:

They have implemented compatibility purely through emulation (at the CPU level). It looks like emulation profiles for each game are going to be stored on the hard drive, and I imagine that a certain number will ship with the system. They already have the infrastructure to distribute more profiles via Live, and more and more can be made available online periodically.

Emulating the CPU isn’t really a difficult task. They have three 3GHz cores, so emulating one 733MHz chip is pretty easy. The real bottlenecks in the emulation are GPU calls – calls made specifically by games to the nVIDIA hardware in a certain way. General GPU instructions are easy to convert – an instruction to draw a triangle in a certain way will be pretty generic. However, it’s the odd cases, the proprietary routines that will cause hassle.

So, although the reasons are different (storing those compatability-enabling profiles that Amiga emulation fans will no doubt be familiar with, rather than downloading executables), it seems like we were close to the mark with our speculation. Presumably, though, those "profiles" will allow compatability with more than one title each; there will broad profiles which work with more simply-programmed games, and more specific profiles for titles which do odd stuff. Socka tume 14:10, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I like Linux as much as the next guy however...

The statement about not having a hard drive on its basic unit: "and hindering Xbox Linux (http://www.xbox-linux.org/) from running" is not proven. Microsoft hasn't stated that there will be no hard drive or the rumor of having multiple versions of the next Xbox. I will only get rid of Xbox Linux statement because it is not a NPOV. The hard drive could also be used as pirated tool. I think Microsoft would be worried about game piracy that takes money away from them with license fees than having an user using a different operating system on their video game console system. --Anonymous Cow 19:18, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree with cows statement about hard drive use for piracy, most of the people i know (who have the right know how) use or know about using the hard drive for mods and emulators. Recently i read an article about miscrosoft employeeing a company to create security measures for xbox 2, this is not official but given the easily modified xbox reputation i would believe microsoft has the resources to do it. -Tik

I agree, running Linux on the XBox is NOT what Microsoft is concerned with. They are concerned that a hard drive makes copying games fun and easy. While Microsoft as a whole is pretty anti-Linux, I hardly think that is the focus of the people designing the game system. MicahMN | Talk 07:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Detailed Xbox 2 specs leak

There is a "purported leak" at [2] (http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=6994). I don't know how real it is, but it sounds interesting and is quite detailed. Thue | talk 13:55, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I heard from some game developers for the next gen consoles that they are using high end Nvidia chips for dev and testing because ATI ones do not support some features that will be used...

-anon.

Some pics, via SlashDot

http://www.maxconsole.com/?mode=comments&newsid=2584 132.205.15.4 19:57, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

ourcolony.net

add [3] (http://www.ourcolony.net) site reference. User:200.172.115.194

What does this have to do with the next Xbox? I don't get it. Theres nothing there and the website is not registered to Microsoft. K1Bond007 18:00, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

This might be a viral marketing campaign. Read this Gamespot article (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/04/06/news_6121811.html) for more information. TerokNor 22:13, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Since it's being picked up by other news places I reverted it back. It's funny how most sites reporting on it have no idea even if Microsoft is behind it. Seems fishy to me. K1Bond007 04:24, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

It is a viral marketing campaign for the next xbox, similarly to the Ilovebees campaign for Halo 2, and yep it is pretty legit. Dracmir 5:42 PM May 9, 2005

Image

The image of the "prototype" should be removed and I am planning to do so soon. This is Wikipedia afterall. An encyclopedia. The first image is obviously not a final system design, and was made by an anonymous user on the Internet. It's a fake. It has no credibility and is not factual. Two things I think are required for an encyclopedia. The second image, holds a little more credibility given the source, so that, for the time being is ok to leave - though it's just going to get deleted in a months time. K1Bond007 18:02, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

This image is strong rumor, internal prototype (http://www.outerspace.com.br/imgs_os/news/2005/xbox360_1.jpg). Of course when the final version shows will be changed.

Xbox 360 name confirmed

GamesIndustry report (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=7991) --Mateusc 22:41, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

When Microsoft actually confirms this as fact on May 12, we'll have the page moved. BTW, to escape the possibility of any problems with copyrights I removed the text you posted and just left the link to the article. Copying and pasting the whole thing is most likely a no-no. Just FYI. Wikipedia:Copyrights K1Bond007 22:53, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

IGN Xbox 360 launch - xbox360.ign.com - MS VP says about Xbox 360 (http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?category=gamers&id=28144). --Mateusc 12:50, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

MTV spot

http://outerspace.terra.com.br/videos/xbox360_mtv_spot.mov

--Mateusc 02:08, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Engadget is confirming this is what the next Xbox will look like

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000293041091/ --Chill Pill Bill 03:03, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Gamespot confirmed today, is internal prototype.

Hard drive?

Missing image
Xbox_360.jpg

Why does it say 40 GB on it? • Thorpe • 09:01, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Do you remember The Register's [speculation] article about two or more versions of the X360? That could be the version with the hard disk....—Quickbreak 12:25, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

That is the removable 40 GB hard-drive which would is beleived to be sold separately (at least in the cheapest version of the system). Dracmir 5:52PM May 9, 2005

The hard drive will be grant retro-compability (Xbox 1 games) giving apropriated software instaled for this. --Mateusc 23:59, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Announcement

Tomorrow after the airing the unveiling is over (see dates and times) the section should, IMHO be removed. K1Bond007 02:13, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Well, it will probably be changed to past-tense. • Thorpe • 07:11, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

But do we really need to have a list of the times and dates in which it ran internationally? I think saying it premiered in North America at ### is good enough. K1Bond007 15:57, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Is this line really necessary: "Note that, in order to comply with ITC regulations regarding the advertisement of videogames and consoles, the UK showing had to be heavily edited. As a result, it featured few images of the Xbox 360 console and its games." I have to say the one that aired in the U.S. had few images of the console and its games. I'm not so sure it was because of regulations. The MTV thing was just horrible and seriously a waste of time. K1Bond007 21:45, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

The UK one managed to have fewer, according to people who've seen both. I'll admit it's not proven that ITC regs were responsible, but shows in general have to be very limited in the amount of videogames hardware and footage shown in order to avoid being classed as an advertisement feature. It's been a big problem for shows like Game Stars Live. It's a disposable comment however and it couldn't hurt to remove it or turn it into a general one: stating that the show (in all regions) featured little footage of the console and its games. Socka tume 01:52, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Ok. I was concerned that it might not be true considering how stupid the MTV special thing was :) I just couldn't imagine one with less content. K1Bond007 03:32, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

Hard Drive included?

On the XBox 360 web site (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm), under Xbox 360 System Performance Specifications, in the Storage section, it lists a "Detachable and upgradeable 20GB hard drive", which sounds to me like the 20GB HD is included. Agree?

Yeah.. see [4] (http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1143/Taking-a-Spin-with-the-Xbox-360/p1/) K1Bond007 03:12, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Impressive new image

Like the new image for the Xbox 360. Well done to whoever contributed this. • Thorpe • 20:13, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

1 TFLOPS?

On the official Xbox 360 site (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm) it says

Overall System Floating-Point Performance * 1 teraflop

However the wikipedia site has 1 teraflop under the CPU section. Can someone who knows more decide whether the 1 TFLOPs is CPU only, or CPU + GPU? -- Zaak (unsigned)

Good point. I'm not a computer hardware expert but I think you're correct because the "Overall System Floating-Point Performance" table row appears after they mention the CPU, GPU, and memory detail specifications. --Chill Pill Bill 16:05, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

- Sorry about that edit-and-then-put-back there, somehow I read two Ses on the end making it TFLOPSs. I'm sleep deprived. Socka tume 19:27, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

"Green circles logo"

Missing image
X3602.JPG
Green circles logo

I've removed this image as I've seen no evidence of it being an official logo and it doesn't fit in with any other imagery. violet/riga (t) 16:20, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Delete Rumor Section

The last two rumors have already been confirmed as being real and the first one could easily be placed in the intro section, I am going to erase the rumor section and add the first rumor to the intro. Dracmir 12:19pm May 14, 2005

Agreed, the former could be "No retail price has been announced, however rumour blah blah", and the other two have sufficient supporting evidence. Socka tume 16:22, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

The controller Windows Longhorn compatibility isn't confirmed yet. I think that rumors section rumors would have to come back and inside of it re-to place "Backwards Compatibility" --Mateusc 16:06, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

With E3 so close, I'd rather just leave the rumors off the page and wait till everything is announced. By E3, you'll know about the price, the compatibility with Windows, and if it will be backward compatible. It's not worth creating a rumor section again for. K1Bond007 18:38, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

The controller is Windows Longhorn compatible. When J Allard and Microsoft announced XNA last year, they said that controllers for the new Xbox (Xbox 360) would be compatible with their operating systems. XNA will be "infused" in Windows Longhorn coding, as it is with the Xbox 360. So, it's obvious to assume that if, let's say, Madden was released on both Xbox 360 and PC for Longhorn, one could take a wired Xbox 360 controller (USB compatible) and transfer it to the PC and play the game with roughly the same controls...But, that's just what I've heard.

Controller

Is the button in the middle of the controller not a trackball? 66.52.195.144 16:17, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

It's a big, flat, button, so no, it's not a trackball as had been rumoured. It'd be practically impossible to use as a trackball in that position anyway. Socka tume 20:06, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

It is the Xbox Live button which makes the Xbox Live menu pop up from wherever you are when you press it (aka. while watching movies, playing games etc.) Dracmir May 18, 2005 9:25pm

No Internet Browsing capability on new XBox

Sony announced its new PS3 will have Internet Browsing capability, a feature lacking in the new XBox 360. This will be a complete drawback for consumers since we all enjoy browsing the Net, and if XBox 360 doesn't offer it then I'd rather wait for PS3! ok

Has this been confirmed already??? --Dynamax 20:18, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Removed: Overall System Floating-Point Performance

1 TFLOP <- original text

No. A 1 TFLOP machine can possibly enter the world's top 500 list (http://www.top500.org/lists/plists.php?TB=5&M=11&Y=2004). This section is totally wrong. -- Toytoy 14:15, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

- Unfortunately, you are the one that is mistaken. The Top 500 list is based on SUSTAINED Dual-Precision FLOPS. Sony and MS are using peak FLOPS, and that includes ops from the GPU pipelines. Terrapin 22:13, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Adding More Details...

We really should be adding as many details as possible. We should add a new Xbox Live section instead of keeping it merged with the original Xbox Live. Also, we should use all the info gathered from the Xbox 360 website (http://www.xbox360.com). Sure, specifications are great (they are, really), but we should add as much info as possible. -- Apadilla80

I strongly disagree about merging the Xbox Live information. That should stay there. Here we should just say that with the launch of the Xbox 360 comes a major new release of Xbox live and a small mention of Silver and the Gold subscription-based service. Thats it. No details - thats what Xbox Live is for. K1Bond007 01:13, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

XBOX name

As it has been discussed in the PLAYSTATION 3 topic, Sony want their name all caps. Shouldn't we be doing the same for the XBOX 360 as opposed to the Xbox 360? Ablaze 14:22, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

About Microsoft, they always spell it Xbox. See www.xbox.com. The front page is loaded with examples of "Xbox." - "Xbox 360 details," "Xbox 360 Hands-on," etc etc. So no. K1Bond007 14:42, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Like the first Xbox, has a diference enters name of the console and the logo/fantasy inscription. Visit to the official sites of both strap this doubt. --Mateusc 18:55, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Logo's are always different. Most are in all caps. It doesn't mean we should change the name of the article. In written text it is "Xbox 360". K1Bond007 21:06, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, it's right. The name is Xbox 360. --200.172.115.194 02:37, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

the PowerPC processor?

Why is microsoft usng a processor that was designed by apple (and IBM and Motorola)? It's like saying "Your better than us so well use your products".

Microsoft don't make PC processors, they make PC software. You're thinking of Intel. Socka tume 13:22, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So you're saying that Microsoft don't even make the product that they advertise as their own?

(As in they don't make/produce the xbox 360 but they claim they do)

They make the Xbox and the Xbox 360, but they didn't create the x86 processor that went into the Xbox, nor did Apple create the POWER processors which power Macs. Therefore your statement makes no sense. Socka tume 14:29, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Making components to a product is entirely different. Besides, if you look into the history of a lot computer products you'd be surprised. OSX, for instance, is not a native Apple product, it was originally developed by NeXT which was later bought up by Apple. This kind of bridges into yesterday's news that Apple is switching to Intel chips. [5] (http://news.com.com/Apple+to+ditch+IBM%2C+switch+to+Intel+chips/2100-1006_3-5731398.html?tag=nefd.lede). K1Bond007 21:15, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

The hardware market's starting to look like a game of musical chairs. Socka tume 01:45, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

DVD/MP3 remote

Although, analysing the specs of the three sixty device, it seems that it can play mp3 and DVD, but... I predict that just like the previous xBox it will require you to buy a seperate remote, even though the controller is infact a remote (Remotes command with electro-magnetic radiation which is what this controller does), you will probably have to buy a seperate remote to play MP3 and another one to play DVD, you will probably, unlike the other xbox thingey, have to buy annother remote to play regular CD's. I don't think the speed at which your xBox 300 and sixty will convert CD quality music from the CD that the original music is stored into a special format that I know nothing about will increase, infact it will decrease (I feel) because microsoft (windows is an example here) doesent know how to handle the processor correctly, meaning that other systems on machines with slower processors can still beat the speed of microsoft's systems.

You seem to be just 1 person giving out on 3 topics about anything MS does and no matter what they do, its not going to be right for you. Ablaze

USB???

Why do this thing need the USB, and why when it was released after the PS2 did not the xbox original have the USB when the PS2 did have the USB ports?? Maby microsoft decided to copy the PS2 and use the USB because they thaught it was a good idea to use the USB, may I'll soon be able to take a USB keyboard and mouse and use the xBox as a cheap computer and surf the net and write documents and so on. I say this because they make it like a computer with the USB and tray loading CD or DVD or MP3 or whatever and the HDD (hard disc drive) and the processor that runs at approx. 100 Mhz which is based on the processor that Apple uses in their computers, next I think that they will revert to using the cruddy old floppy disc which has a 1.3 Mb storage capacity (when formatted) and a data transfer rate of approx. 16k/sec, the drive for the floppy will probbably be tray loading (like the CD/DVD/Mp3/etc... drive), yes, the future of xBox, is grand with the capability of 4 players while PS3 allows 7 players (of course at the same time), and 3 USB while PS3 has 6 which means I will have one USB free while I am surfing the net with my USB keyboard and mouse, unless... I use a USB monitor, I will have to get one of them hubb USB things that allow me to use more of the USB ports.

The controller ports on the original Xbox were USB (as well as were you plugged your memory card and headset)only problem was that they had a non-standard connector, if you found a way to plug components into them (which many people did), they would work like any USB port.

Tray or Slot Loading Disc Drive?

The 300 and sixty device obviousely and dissapointingly has a tray loading CD/DVD drive, this results in a less futuristic gaming experience and the feeling that you have missed out on something but you just can't figure out what it is.

(I say obviousely and it can be proven with a quick glimpse at the left hand corner of the remote controll there is an Open/Close button, this button is not to be confused with the famous eject if a CD is inserted button)

Serious Xbox 360 Graphics evaluation

This link will supply all of you wikiheads with a the first ever evaluation of the Xbox 360's Graphics http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/

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