Talk:White separatism

STOP POV MIS-DIRECTING and REVERTING this ARTICLE:

"A supremacist -- of whatever race -- is distinct from a 'separatist.' A separatist may believe that his race is superior to other races in some or all characteristics, but this is not his essential belief. The separatist is defined by his wish for freedom and independence for his people. He wishes them to have their own society, to be led by their own kind, to have a government which looks out for their interests alone. The separatist does not wish to live in a multiracial society at all, so he naturally has no desire to rule over other races -- since such rule necessitates the multiracial society the separatist wants to avoid at all costs.

A supremacist, in contrast, demands a multiracial society, since it is the supremacist's express wish that he dominate or rule over other races in such a society, such rule often being justified by a doctrine of racial superiority."

Thanks! :D

--User:65.125.10.66, 17:50, 24 Feb 2004

STOP POV MIS-DIRECTING and POV REVERTING that Wiki NPOV ARTICLE.

PS--The only ones SPAMMING are the ones MIS-REDIRECTING the NPOV article to a Marxist-PC POV one!

--User:24.45.99.191, 18:28, 25 Feb 2004

Separatism --User:66.2.156.38 04:29, 26 Feb 2004

Individuals

Has Frank Salter identified himself as a white separatist? The external link goes to an Amazon book listing, but there's nothing there that uses the term "white separatist". Unless someone self-identifies, their inclusion on the list needs to be well-supported. (For instance, Abernethy has given interviews in which she calls herself a white separatist). Thanks, -Willmcw 23:58, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Salter's book has basically two parts. In the first part he comes up with a new theory of ethnic nepotism -- its fairly hard science and neutral. The second part is where he makes the case for ethnostate formation reconstructing something resembling the Ancestral environment or Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness (EEA) for those individuals who can still be so classified (recognizing there are large populations that are sufficiently panmictic that they would need what I might call cosmostates). I don't have the book but I have conversed with Salter and am confident I can come up with the reference. I'll ask him for it. Jim Bowery 00:20, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, since the info is hard to find I'm going to comment-out the Salter reference until we can find material to properly label him. It'll still be there for when we've got it. Cheers, -Willmcw 05:31, Feb 24, 2005 (UTC)

I got a response back from Salter and he asked that he not be referred to as a white separatist since, in his opinion, it implies a primary orientation toward political activism. Jim Bowery 09:26, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that additional research. If no independent source identifies Salter as a white supremacist, and if he does not self -identify that way either, then there is no basis for that term in the article. If such a source were ever found then it would have to be cited, of course. Cheers, -Willmcw 09:41, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

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I remove the following because it's clearly complete rubbish.

Discussions of white separatism are generally difficult due to a conflict between two points of view, each accusing the other of supremacist hypocrisy:

1. Those opposing white separatism generally claim there are few if any white separatists -- only white supremacists claiming to be white separatists.
2. The white separatist general counter-claim is that by denying self-determination to whites, their opponents are supremacist hypocrites.

While the first point is covered elsewhere. The second is obvious rubbish, because opponents of white separatism generally believe in all races being treated equally in an integrated society. No-one could reasonably accuse such people of being supremacist. You can't even accuse them of denying whites their rightful place of superiority (remember, you're a separatist, not a supremacist). All you can accuse your opponents of in general is believing that the races should be integrated rather than separated, and that's not supremacist. DJ Clayworth 20:41, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

First of all, whether it is garbage or not is not to the point. It is a fact that self-proclaimed separatists accuse those who oppose white separatism of being multicultural supremacists and therefore hypocrites. Moreover, supremacist ideology needn't be racially based. One can, for example, be a Christian supremacist -- believing in the supreme authority of Christianity which should be universally recognized by all humanity. The belief that people should live in racially integrated societies is a belief like Christianity. It can be turned into a supremacist belief by the simple expedient of proclaiming it to be universally enforceable due to its moral superiority. The items remain. Jim Bowery 09:26, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

_____

No mention of white separatism outside the USA and South Africa. Doesn't Jean-Marie Le Pen's Front National in France fall under the white separatist category? Or the British National Party?

I don't believe that the BNP is a separatist party within the meaning discussed here. The BNP would, at the very least, discriminate between ethnicities when it comes to immigration to the UK. That makes them racist rather than separatist, since they would discriminate on the basis of race.

In fact I wanted to ask a question? Does anyone have a reference from a white separatist describing how a white separatist (but not supremacist) society would actually work? I have yet to find anything resembling an explanation. Here are some particular questions:

1. It would seem from the article that white (non-supremacist) separatist would admit that the apartheit system was racist, and therefore that system would not be acceptable. That would seem to pretty much eliminate any form of racial 'separateness' where the races occupied by the same geographical area but had separate social institutions. Some institutions (like the army and the police) Don't really admit of separateness.
2. Does it therefore follow that all white separatists are really proposing that whites and non-whites live in different places?
3. Alternatively haven't any white separatists thought this through to this extent?

It would make sense to add some of the answers to this to the article. DJ Clayworth 20:44, 11 May 2005 (UTC)