Talk:Supersessionism

The page says "This view is unanimous, and other leaders in the Catholic Church have since issued other official proclamations which reject this view (...)"

This sounds contradictory, is there perhaps a negation missing in the first part of this sentence?Andre Engels

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This article bothers me. It defines supersessionism in a way that supersessionists can't agree with. That can't be good. Supersessionism concerns the identity of the Church, not the chosenness of the Jews. As defined, the article not only misses what is meant by supersessionism, it also misses what the Church has believed concerning the Jews. I'll poke around for some statements of more or less "official" standing in various traditions, to show what I mean. I'll work on it when I have a little time. Mkmcconn 03:37, 23 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Proposed redefintion

I want to define supersessionism more in line with the following:

Supersessionism is the traditional Christian belief that Christianity is the fulfillment of Biblical Judaism, and therefore that Jews who deny that Jesus Christ is the Jewish Messiah fall short of their calling as God's Chosen people.

Thus, according to supersessionism, the Jews are supposedly either, no longer considered to be God's Chosen people or, their proper calling is frustrated pending their acceptance of Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah.

The reason this is better, is that it offers more than one idea of supersessionism. It allows that there might be some who believe that the Jews are rejected (I assume that there must be some who formally teach this, although I am less familiar with this belief, and do not know if it is currently, formally held by anyone). However, Protestant supersessionists (at least the Reformed variety, with which I am familiar) do not believe that the "chosenness" of the Jews is revokable for any reason. In fact, the "chosenness" of the gentile believers in the messiah is an engrafting into the promises made to Israel. If the Jews can be rejected, then the chosenness of the Church is also reversible, since its basis is in the former. The election of the Christian Church is not reversible, and therefore neither is its basis, in the election of Israel.

Please discuss. Mkmcconn 09:52, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I agree with this approach. I was uncomfortable with this article when I encountered it too. However I think we need views from people from a variety of traditions (particularly, I'd suggest, Jewish, Catholic, Orthodox, and dispensationalist) - I am just another liberal Protestant, though of a different (more Arminian) traditon. But maybe the way to get those views is to put up your preferred definition and see who bites. Or put a message on the talk page of someone who has worked on the article before? seglea 16:42, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I had thought that others would weigh in here with an opinion on this proposal, but since there are no objections, I'll insert the revision and see what happens.

....................................................................... In an article by author Phillip Yancy who was invited to attend a round table discussion with Jewish Islamic and Christian men he concluded that Islam believes it has superseded Christianity in the way that Christianity may have superceded Judaism.

Whoever wrote the third paragraph in this article should really really read Romans 11 (the whole chapter). You can go on about translation problems etc. but this is not a difficult peace of scripture to understand. There will only be so many gentiles that will be saved. Read it for yourself it's really easy to understand and any church who cant get with scripture this easy shouldn't be trusted with translation of other scripture!

Regarding Category:Calvinism

I removed this category because the page doesn't really explain in any way how the concept is unique to Calvinism or particularly important to Calvinism, as opposed to other families of Christianity. If someone can edit the page to explain that, then I have no problem with us returning it to that category. KHM03 14:37, 18 May 2005 (UTC)