Talk:Papiamento
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proof for this recent addition needed
When Spanish discovered and ruled the islands, many Spanish words were obtained. Spanish was also added through Ladino, Spanish-influenced language, of Brazilian Sephardic Jews.
-Pedro 17:20, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Is this enough?
- [1] (http://www.ujcl.org/curacao/) Most of these settlers were originally from Spain and Portugal. They had fled the Inquisition and found refuge first in Holland and in Northern Brazil and later in Curaçao.
- why were the Brazilian jews Spanish-influenced? It is true that the Jews escaped to Portugal with the spanish expulsion of the jews. And many made it. But Portugal also wanted to have a good image in the Holly See, so it also started to persue the jews, the spaniards were a too easy pray. Some converted, some pretended they were Christians, and tryed to go to the Brazilian colony along with other settlers, away from Metropolitan Portugal, were the inquisition started also the have a big role, also has a side-effect to what was happening in Spain. Why they would be Spanish-influenced? Did they really spoke Ladino? Spanish jews have, in fact, entered in Portugal. So it is possible. Although not enough, it justifies a big doubt: The spanish toke the native from this islands to anothers and named them: Islas Inutiles(useless islands) because there was not precious metals, so if there was influence in the natives it would go with them for the other islands. But that's not what's written in the article: When Spanish discovered and ruled the islands, many Spanish words were obtained. and Spanish was also added through Ladino, Spanish-influenced language, of Brazilian Sephardic Jews. - so... i'm not getting where did you get these conclusions. --Pedro 13:38, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- [2] (http://www.sefarad.org/publication/lm/038/4.html)
- With the reoccupation by Portugal of the Dutch-held parts of Brazil, in 1654, the Jews were forced to leave Recife and Olinda, and seek other places of settlement. Now they were also regarded as experienced planters and traders in tropical produce — sugar, cacao, vanilla, and indigo — and people coming from Brazil were used to life in tropical conditions and therefore were very much needed in the American colonies. These exiles from Dutch Brazil took their place among the main producers of sugar in Cayenne, Pomeroon, Surinam, Barbados, Jamaica, Martinique, and Guadeloupe. The "Black Code" promulgated in 1683 by the French king Louis XIV instigated the expulsion of the Jews from the French-held islands.
- The choice fell on Joshua Hizquiau de Cordova. He was a member of a Sephardi family originating in Istanbul. Born in Amsterdam, he arrived in Curaçao to teach the Bible and Talmud in Ladino translations and also to hold services and preach.
- Jews lived in Dutch, English, and Danish colonies in the Caribbean. Yet, their language in the 17th and 18th centuries remained Spanish or Portuguese.
- [3] (http://www.cryptojews.com/Brazil.htm) When the Portuguese regained control of Recife in 1654, the Jews were again subject to the Inquisition. Some left for Holland. Some went to Curacao and then to New Amsterdam
list of words
Seems like all the lists of papiamento/english/portuguese words should be moved out to another article now and combined with Papiamento Verbs, Food and Beverages in Papiamento, and More words in Papiamento. I will do that if there are not significant objections. I have some more lists of papiamento words that I would like to integrate when I get some time. - Taxman 16:57, Jun 19, 2004 (UTC)
A couple of problems. First, I've just removed this new addition: “and one ethymologic, called Papiamento, reason why it resembles Spanish (in Aruba).” I assuming that 'etymological' was meant, but I don't see how it makes sense in the context. In fact, even correcting the last part to: 'which is the reason that it resembles Spanish', it just doesn't fit here.
Secondly, the same person has made a lot of alterations to the lists of words & phrases. I don't know if it's the same person who made the original list (it really would help if people registered), nor am I in a position to judge their accuracy. Some help would be useful here.
Actually, thirdly, is it appropriate to an article like this to be made up largely of what amounts to a Papiamento–English phrase book/dictionary? Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:42, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Reorganization of article
I like the phrasebook idea, so I don't object to its presence in the Wikipedia. But the Papiamento article should focus on the language itself: Grammar, Phonology, Orthography, History, Dialects, Syntax that kind of thing, and the phrasebook should be moved to Papiamento vocabulary or Papiamento phrasebook. I didn't know Papiamento is a tonal language, as the article asserts, but I couldn't help noticing that there's no indication of what the "tones" are, nor is there any representation of the tones in the extensive phrasebook. Tomer TALK 22:28, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
- As you'll notice above I agree with you, I just never got to it. I know very little about the language except what I have read in a few things over the last year. I say go for it. Se what other languages have done as an example. Maybe there is a Wikiproject with guidelines. - Taxman 23:05, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
- I think there should be a wikiproject on Creoles (obviously realistical) - with substract language and with special focus on superstact. Has I see in wikipedia, many people confuse the substract with Superstract and occasionally is very upseating to constantly correcting it. This is because these languages are very different from normal ones. I'm thinking in completing and correcting the Portuguese Creole article, anbd also dividing it into several, because it is too big. Has for the phrases it was just a curiosity that a speaker and I did, just to see with our eyes where the origin of the language was. There are many good linguists out there! (irony) -Pedro 15:33, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia in Papiamento
A request for a Wikipedia in Papiamento has been posted to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages#Papiamentu. If you are a (native) speaker of Papiamentu and/or want to support this new Wikipedia you can add your accountname on meta to this request list. Gebruiker:Dedalus 12:34, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Personally I think we need a really good article about it first, but that's just me. To each their own, that's what we're here for. - Taxman 15:46, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
- I started to change it. Correct what's left. -Pedro 21:34, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ta
From what I read years ago, Papiamento ta came from tabata , itself from Spanish (and Portuguese?) estaba ("it/he/she was"). --Error 00:02, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- It can be... The Portuguese Pidgin that spreed in Africa obviously prefered to use "ta" than another word: mim tá aqui.-> me is here., "mim taba aqui", etc.. Remember that Papiamento was confused to be a Spanish Creole, well many still classify it has Iberian. I think we can use the examples to make tables allways with the Port. and Spanish. words, but smaller in size...-Pedro 00:40, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)