Talk:Pakistan Air Force

Irrelevant and Missing information

Man, their so much irrelevant and missing information in this topic. I am going to update and edit this article. I also want to declare that the pictures I have used are with DIRECT PERMISSION from the PakDef Website. So, no one has the right to delete them. Thank you and have a nice day! -(Clone)Stephen P. Cohen

May I remind you that you should also tag them and include the "DIRECT PERMISSION" rights that you obtained from the PakDef site along with the photo. else it might still be put up for deletion by anyone. also research the external sites. the site you have quoted is full of double errors, i.e repeating the same kill multiple times and the author has not quoted his references. So just because someone neutral writes, it does not become authentic automatically unless the references he uses are equally so.

Also do note that "cut-copy-paste" of article from biased sites doesn't really help. a few words here and there is ok, but blatant POV statements that hammer 3 or 4 words that essentially mean the same is rhetorical. this is after all an encyclopedia. Good Luck --Idleguy 10:45, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

That website is the most neutral ever. It has information from all the different air forces of the world especially my favorite “THE ISRAELI AIR FORCE”. Either, you are on ganja for doubting them, “The Air Combat Information Group” or, you are an Pro-Indian trying to rewrite history in your own terms. PAF is one of the best air forces of the world. Definitely, in the same league as THE ISRAELI AIR FORCE. Here is the DIRECT PERMISSION:

“

From : Admin PakDef <webmaster@pakdef.info>

Sent : June 21, 2005 5:35:25 AM

To : ------------------------

Subject :Re: Copyright Issues

Dear Mr. ----------,

Please feel free to use the images as long as you give proper credit.

Kind regards,

Admin PakDef

“

I have deleted my name and email address for security purposes.

Thank you and Come again. - (Clone)Stephen P. Cohen

Nice to know you have added the missing info. I will tag it accordingly.

Please note that you have reverted to a less conjointed and improperly formatted version in your haste to show a POV. The so called neutral site does not quote any references itself and as such is full of factual double errors. So the doubt. If you haven't read the link yourself please pore over it and you will know what I mean. Your revert to a older version without reading the reference yourself shows you in poor light. Also jingoistic words have no place in wikipedia. Nor does beating around the bush statements that seem to go on and on. A crisp language is what I tried to infuse with facts that can be authenticated and free of errors.

Neutrality of sources themselves can be gleaned from the sources they obtained the information. consider this scenario, if a US airforce personnel with PAF is told of the losses and kills claimed then it is a source of bias for further documentation and research have stemmed from a one sided perspective. Similarly a Russian source that relies exhaustively on IAF reports is likely to be skewed in favour of Indian sources. Infact a Soviet commission's mention on the 1971 war seems uncannily similar to the IAF reports. Not unless the sources are added does one get the full picture. Neutrality of the author is one thing, the validity of the facts which are further riddled with errors is en entirely different matter altogether.

btw, I know that PAF is one of the best, and you might love the Israeli Air Force, but anything to do with India-Pak is always exaggerated. And I'm not on ganja. :-) --Idleguy 17:44, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Stop editing this article. You are definitely trying to remove important points that make PAF a grandeur force. You are trying to rewrite history in a Pro-Indian manner. Let me also remind you that this article is about PAKISTAN AIR FORCE and not about INDIAN AIR FORCE. Thus, it is about PAKISTAN and NOT INDIA. Feel free to edit the INDIAN AIR FORCE article. I am showing you neutral facts here yet, in your blind hatred; you find it hard to believe. - (Clone)Stephen P. Cohen

I have no problem with anyone editing the article as long as they stay unbiased and free of "cut and paste" operations and poor english. Also know your history of the war and the results. Moreover the images are also unfree as a "rights to use" photos are no longer considered free to use in wikipedia since may 19, 2005. unless u can get it as public domain they are likely targets for speedy deletion.

Just because it's about PAF doesn't mean the facts should not be properly arranged. moroever this is not ur propaganda site like pakdef or similar sites. I was questioning the validity of the external link since it has errors. But obviously you haven't read it fully and fail to understand anything I say. Remember that this "grandeur force" as you put it was paralyzed towards the end of 1971 as they didn't fight back. Ultimately wars aren't won on how many people are killed or initial victories but the end result. Unfortunately you are missing the big picture.

I presume that hatred comes where there is lack of knowledge. Thankfully I read the nitty gritty of everything to ever be bothered about hate. Cheers.--Idleguy 18:39, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Whatever makes your MAHARAJ happy - (Clone)Stephen P. Cohen

Images

Hi (Clone)Stephen P. Cohen - the permission that the admin of the PakDef site has granted to use these images is incompatible with Wikipedia's GFDL copyright licence. Specifically, images used in Wikipedia must be available to be used by anybody for any purpose. Simply giving Wikipedia permission to use them is not enough - PakDef must be happy for the images to be redistributed and re-used endlessly. This could include people reproducing the images for commercial purposes, or for purposes of criticising or denigrating the Pakistan Air Force.

Could you please clarify with the admin whether PakDef is happy to release their photos under these terms? --Rlandmann 00:03, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)