Talk:Medieval philosophy
From Academic Kids
I think this list is worth having, if added to! But what order should it be in?
Much more imporantly, what's it's geographic and cultural scope? Do you mean Medieval European philosophy, or Early Christian philosophy, or Medieval Christian philosophy, or what? BTW no philosophers coudl be non-Christians in this era in Europe or they would have been burned at the stake. ;-0)
It is too Europe-centric to claim ownership of an entire era - there was much interaction between people like Aquinas and the important Muslims like the Mutazilite - but also the Asharite and the disciplines of isnah and fiqh. For this history see Early Muslim philosophy (historical and political perspective) and Islamic philosophy (the actual arguments mostly re: Aristotle, discussing the chain of influences from ancient Greek and Rome via Islam to medieval Islam and Europe). Having two such treatments for Early Christian philosophy and Christian theology <-- what Christians did was not 'philosophy' by The Renaissance - philosophy itself had to be revived by inputs from Islam, mostly methodological. Then of course as Christianity woke up and got scientific, Islam went to sleep and forgot that it invented science... Is it really correct to talk about these strains geographically or within faiths? Or is it just that all "Western" Judeo-Christian-Islamic thought is one thing? In which case the Islamics must be in the 'medieval' list too.
Yes, of course. I have no bias against Islamic influences but European medieval philosophy is a reasonably defied area. I am happy to move the list down a level and link it from this page, allowing futre links to Islamic and other areas.
My only reservation is that "medieval" makes sense in a European context and, to some extent, Islamic. But makes little sense in Indian or Chinese contexts.
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I don't think that Garsonides should be in this list, which is of chritian philosophers. He should be start of another list of Jewish philosophers. UNless a strong case is made to merge these two categoroes, I should like to remove him.
- I don't understand why this entry is titled medieval philosophy, if it means to exclude all Jewish and Islamic medieval philosophers. I thoguht that the idea of a medieval era includes not only Christian Europe, but also Muslim Europe, and Europe-influenced North Africa. This would include many Jewish and Islamic philsophers, including Gersonides and Maimonides. I agree with the above unsigned statement, "It is too Europe-centric to claim ownership of an entire era - there was much interaction between people like Aquinas and the important Muslims like the Mutazilite - but also the Asharite and the disciplines of isnah and fiqh." Perhaps this article (given its title) should deal with the topic in general, and include Christian, Jewish amd Muslim medieval philosphers, and mention the interlectual cross-fertilization between them. If someone wants to focus exclusively on Christian, Jewish or Muslim medieval philosophy, they could then follow the links to the appropriare more specialized articles. RK
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You don't seem to have read the opening disclaimer above the list. I know that there are important names outside the scholastic tradition and would be only too happy to see them listed. Would you be satisfied if I push this whole page down a level and leave a niche for someone to deal with other medieval philosophies? BevRowe
I, for one, disagree. Citing only Christian philosophers is misleading and exclusionary. How can we discuss the philosophy of the time without mentioning Avicenna, Averroes, and Maimondides? Yet, they were Muslims and Jews. Danny
The opening disclaimer means little. If you want an exclusive list for Christian medieval philosophy it is very easy.make a page. User:Two16
In agreement with Two16 and Danny, I note that many U.S. College courses on medieval philosophy mention both Islamic and Jewish philosophers, as well as Christian ones. Consider this book: "Readings in Medieval Philosophy" Edited by Andrew B. Schoedinger. "The most comprehensive collection of its kind, this unique anthology presents fifty-four readings--many of them not widely available--by the most important and influential Christian, Jewish, and Muslim philosophers of the Middle Ages." RK Readings in Medieval Philosophy (http://www.oup-usa.org/isbn/0195092937.html)
- I don't believe any of you are bothering to read what I am actually writing. YES, YES, YES, Islamic and Jewish philosophers of this period are immensely important and had a huge affect on philosophy in NW Europe. But that's not the point. Medieval is esentially a term relating to Western Europe. It doesn't make a lot of sense for other culture areas as it is not between anything significant. However, I have offered to move this whole list down a level. The scholastic philosophers form a relatively coherent group and it is worth keeping them together. Let us by all means have lists of philosophers from other cultural areas but there is some point in keeping them separate.BevRowe
- I agree with you. However, it was my understanding that the term medieval does not always restrict itself to northwest Europe. My understanding was that it includes those thinkers in North Africa who were part of the same intellectual exchange and dynamic. Given the title of this entry, I think we are just saying that it makes sense to redefine the content of this article to include the intellectual cross-fertilization that was centered in, but not exclusive to, NW Europe, during the medieval era. I agree with you that the scholastic philosophers form a relatively coherent group and it is worth keeping them together! As such, it is appropriate that the current entry on scholastic philosophy has this list! However, it needs some content, an introduction at least! RK
- I am not a medieval historian, so I grant from the outset I may be wrong, but Like RK I diagree with BevRow when s/he claims that "Medieval is esentially a term relating to Western Europe. It doesn't make a lot of sense for other culture areas as it is not between anything significant," for two reasons. The first reason has to do with Jewish history. When I was in college and studied Jewish history, it was broken into four segments: Biblical, Rabbinic (meaning really Amoraim and Tanaim), Medieval, and Modern. In one sense, "medieval" was "inbetween" the period that ended with the codification of the Talmud, and the period that began with the Haskala. But I do not believe it is just a coincidence that both Jews and Christians had a "middle" period -- Jews lived within both Alexander's empire and the Roman Empire, and the collapse of the Roman Empire and the decline of Hellenic or Classical civilization (as it were) was as important event for Jews as it was for Christians -- and as important for non-Europeans as for Europeans. Similarly, the Enlightenment (and its antecedents in the Baroque period) was also a turning point in Jewish history and culture. My second point is that in many ways the notion of "European" anything is a Eurocentric construction. Greek civilization and the Roman empire were as oriented towards Africa Persia, and India as they were towards Western Europe, and those empires created commercial and intellectual routes that do not easily correspond to Cold War boundaries.
- I think that "medieval" may not be appropriate to Mongol and Islamic civilizations, although I think even this is arguable. But certainly, the term is meaningful to Jewish history and not because of some parallel history or coincidence. Jews were in Europe long before the Visigoths; Maimonides lived in Europe, as did Spinoza and Mendlesohn. It is a mistake to say that Jews had an impact, even a tremendous impact, on Western European history as if "Jews" were somehow outside of or separate from Europe. There is no European history without Jews; Jews were also Europeans and if the fact that Jews (and Arabs) kept links between Western Europe, Africa, and Asia alive after the fall of Rome, then what we need is an expanded notion of European culture and history. A thoughtful study of this history does not reveal that Jews had their "own" culture area; it reveals that the "culture area" of "Western Europe" was bigger, more fluid, and not quite as European, as some might have thoughtSlrubenstein
Medieval and Islamic thought
I'd say that the scope of medieval extends only to Christian-ruled Europe, and so thinkers like Maimonides are not Medieval thinkers, but it is impossible to understand medieval philosophy without the impact of thinkers within Muslim-ruled areas. I suggest that we have a section Influences from outside Christian Europe, and include a list of the key contemporary figures; I guess I would have:
Thoughts? While I'm on the subject, I know of Al-Ghazali's influence on medieval thought, but almost nothing of what it consists of. Who read him? --- Charles Stewart 18:35, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
