Talk:Mary Jo Kopechne
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identity
Wasn't Mary Jo on Bobby Kennedy's campaign staff? --Rj 20:29, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)
huh?
Why didn't Mary Jo's parents exact any revenge?
Why did her parents not want an autopsy proformed? Has there been any evidence that she might have been pregnant?
depth of water
I was about to remove that (again) myself, Rick. The only data I can find are that the pond was from 6 to 30 feet deep (though certainly it means 0 to 30 feet deep), except in those sources seeking to lambaste Kennedy. Lokifer, if you have something credible (IIRC, there may be a photo of the divers, but I couldn't find it), I have no problem with having this detail in place. But it'll require some rewriting rather than just stuffing it in there, because Kennedy didn't claim the water was six feet deep. Blair P. Houghton 23:51, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
That is exactly the problem that I'm having with proof about the depth of the water. There were photos of the car being pulled out of the water at the time, but I've been unable to locate them. I've been trying to dig up what people would consider credible sources (not the politically biased sites that litter the internet) that states the depth of the water. And since Rickk is questioning the reason that it's valid, one of the things that hurt Kennedy's image was not just the drunk claim and supposed inability to act, but that the water wasn't very deep on the day that it happened.Lokifer 00:22, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I cleaned it up. It said the car overturned, then that it was upside down, within 10 words. I adjusted the logical flow lower down. I changed it to say she worked for RFK rather than TK. I added a link to Kennedy's speech; and I've removed the link to the Times site because they want 5 bucks from everyone who wants to see the data. Sick. Blair P. Houghton 07:09, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I had to add the "six feet of water" to the article again. Besides the Time magazine article from November 1979, I can cite other sources that all agree that it was six feet of water. The FBI report entitled "The Perjury of Edward Kennedy" states that the car was six feet underwater. John Farrer, the scuba diver, guessed that the car was six to seven feet underwater. And from Ted Kennedy in his testimony he states that he waded to the car and that he could stand next to the car. Additionally, he stated that while holding onto the car when trying to save Mary Jo, the water reached up to some point on his body (the exact point is not detailed in the report). Since he is slightly taller than six feet tall, all his descriptions of the depth of water would indicate about six feet of water.Lokifer 00:28, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
depth of water again
As I've shown in the Ted Kennedy talk, the water level was six feet deep. My count so far has five sources stating that it was six feet of water: 1) Ted Kennedy states in his testimony that when he tried to save Mary Jo, he could stand next to the car...making it about six feet deep. 2) Ted Kennedy states that he had to hold on to the car because of the current and indicates (the source doesn't show where exactly he indictates) where the water level is at...making it around six feet, with a liberal area of about one foot above or below his height. 3) The scuba diver that removed Mary Jo from the car then the car from the pond states that the water was about six or seven feet deep. 4) Edgartown Police Chief Dominick Arena's police report and a diagram of the accident has it stated that the water was six feet deep. 5) An article in Time Magazine from 1979, ten years after the incident, has it stated that the water level was six feet deep. By my count, that's four sources from 1969, including two from Kennedy himself.Lokifer 07:42, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The only one that's a reliable fact is Farrar's, and he was working at low tide. Where Patterson erred is the tides aren't 12 hours apart, they're closer to 11 hours apart (Patterson is no sailor). The tide would have been rushing at its peak velocity when Kennedy was in the water, not still, and not at its minimum depth. Kennedy's indication is (a) unknown and (b) relative to the bottom of the car and (c) gives us absolutely no indication of the actual depth of the water. The fact that many sources quote Farrar and/or Patterson does nothing to change the fact that the water MUST have been deeper than six feet at the time the car went into the water, the time Kennedy was trying to save Kopechne, and the time the other two men were trying to save her. We have no idea how deep, we only know "six feet" is almost certainly wrong. Blair P. Houghton 18:00, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)