Talk:Indie rock
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It is a mess indeed. I don't think Acb's revision of 27 may 2005 is helping a lot in the opening paragraph, either.
What is a lot worse is that the article implies that "alternative" was some sort of bridge between new wave/punk and indie, which is totally wrong. Historically, the term indie was in generel use in the late eighties. Thus, Sonic Youth as of Sister/Daydream Nation was an indie rock band. "Alternative" was used for stuff like 10.000 Maniacs, REM and Green on Red, bands that were all on major labels at the time (late 80'ies). These bands were never seen as a part of the indie thing, but constituted some kind of middle ground. This is why Pearl Jam, obviously an alternative band, certainly don't belong in this article.
I think it would be great and constructive if the congregation here could agree to use Michael Azerrad's "Our band could be your life" as some sort of reference point, at least as far as the US scene is concerned. So instead of everybody contributing with what they "feel" their definition of indie is, we might start to point to actual, real-world sources! What a concept, huh? Then we might be able to turn the article into something a bit more useful. --The User Formerly Known As 83.91.204.14 4 june 2005
This whole article is a glaringly incomplete, apocryphal mess.
I removed from this article A link to "Fuck (band)". If anyone wants to make a page for this band, then return it to this list. We shouldn't list profanely named bands just for the sake of having the word there. - Mark Ryan
- Page is created now, so I've returned the link --Generica 02:38, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)
Does it make sense to link to "alternative rock", since that just redirects back to here? I don't think so, but at the same time, I don't think the link should simply be removed either. It seems to me that, while related, indie rock and alternative rock aren't exactly the same, and therefore, alternative rock deserves an article of its own. -Chinju
The list seems a bit US-orientated, and also needs trimming of some of the less significant names. The bit about "indie"/"emo" isn't strictly relevant either. -Silver plane
- I agree that the bit about emo doesn't belong here:
In some musical communities, "indie" is used to mean the same thing "emo" means to nearly everyone else, due to heavy criticism of "emo" bands.
Because it really contains little info, and I can't quite parse its meaning. The less relevant bands shoud no be removed on general principal, though as the list gets too long, it should be moved to List of indie rock musicians. I'm sure the list is americocentric and needs more indie rock bands from other countries, though the solution is not to remove American bands. Tuf-Kat
I removed the following:
- 'There is often a unifying esthetic or ethos of defiance or independence, and a powerful community feel that rebels against the homogonies of aesthetic and philosophy that exist in the mainstream, against cliches of production qualities, instrumentation, style and ways of looking at the world; feminism as opposed to sexism, positivity - as opposed to the bling-bling and sexist topics in the mainstream - is found in indie hip-hop, etc. For every "Rage Against the Machine" there is often a more potent and creative "Fugazi" thriving outside the mass media.
There is useful info here, but it is much too biased until someone rewrites it. Tuf-Kat 21:55, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC)
There are a _lot_ of people adding bands that link to nothing. How about slowing the tide, and actually creating at least stubs for the bands before adding the links here? --Generica 04:48, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)
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Indie or not?
There's a bit of a problem with the list of indie bands. There are several bands on the list who are either on a major label or switched from an indie label to a major label. This kind of hurts the integrity of this list. First of all, any bands who were never on an indie label should be removed. Secondly, it would probably be best to make a second list of bands who were on an indie label but changed to a major one. This would help make this a true list of indie artists, instead of just a list of alternative music artists (which we already have). -- LGagnon 23:10, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- This started being a problem nearly twenty years ago. Since then, the term is frequently applied to bands more or less in that style, rather than necessarily bands on independent labels per se. It was because of this that Australian indie rock now redirects to the much more specific List of Australian independent bands, 1976-1992, which includes a definition of what the term means in context - and that meaning is what it was generally accepted to mean in that time and place.
- The problem is complicated by labels that are distributed by indies but owned by majors, e.g. many in the UK in the early 1990s. Then there's labels that go out through different distribution for different records.
- The ambiguity is in the real-world common usage; we could change it to be strict, but the list would then need a new name not to constitute editorialising on the issue - David Gerard 13:59, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Indie is not pop is not emo
I really don't think Liz Phair or Dashboard Confessional are indie rock bands, and a lot of other stuff on here isn't either. Indie is a genre disparate from emo rock, and pop rock, at least in the U.S. (OK, so it's basically the same as alt rock) Andre 07:34, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Liz Phair's early work was released on Matador Records and is considered very influential in the indie rock world. Dashboard does, indeed, not belong here.--Tinyfolk 14:46, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
"rock"
I've noticed that "indie music" is a redirect to "indie rock". Is this appropriate? A lot of indie music doesn't come under the category of rock and roll. (For example, Azure Ray; it would be inaccurate to describe them as a rock band, and yet they fit into the genre of indie music.) I propose restructuring the pages to make "indie music" the umbrella page, with "indie rock", "indie pop" and such as subcategories. Acb 01:09, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Well, it really looks like every band someone just happens to know, was put into the list. Bands like Sigur Ros and Morcheeba are _definitely_ no Indie Rock, as their own articles can tell you, so are lots of other bands. I know it's hard to sort bands by category, but at least be consistent throught the wikipedia. --Trickstar, 6 Jan 2005
Eels (The)
Fixed the link to The Eels to remove the The - the page it links too has the correct name.
Indie: Status Or Genre?
This paragraph is not entirely true, In Britain there is more to indie than just those particular bands, these bands are indie yet there are so many others that don't fall into the post punk category such as Keane and Thirteen Senses to name two, also Indie was widely used as a label in Britain before 2004.
- This line, under 'Indie: Status Or Genre?', seems to have missed at least a decade of indie charts in the UK. I can't find a date that they started, but I remember watching the indie charts as a teenager in the early nineties. I don't know of any time when the indie charts were dropped and then restarted as a different category. At the very least, indie predates The Strokes and Interpol. What about Suede etc.? Therefore, I'm going to replace this with a line about 'indie music charts starting around the early 90s in the UK'.
- In Britain, 'indie' is a term recognised by the BBC's Top Of The Pops and used to refer to a new wave of British rock bands who mostly rose to prominence during 2004 in the alternative music charts, following the New York explosion by bands such as The Strokes and Interpol in the first three years of the new millenium.
Jenks 12:23, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Split off list of bands as a separate article?
Should we split off the list of bands as a separate article? This has been done with Alternative music and List of alternative rock bands. -- ericl234 talk 18:22, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
- Any list with more than a dozen or so entries should be split, I think. Tuf-Kat 21:10, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
Twee Pop and Sub Pop?
What in the world does Sub Pop Records have to do with Twee Pop? Because I can't think of a single thing. K Records would be better, and Sarah Records would be best to link to the twee genre, along with any number of newer labels (magic marker records, elefant, etc.).--Tinyfolk 14:46, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
Indie rock and Indie (music)
I think there needs to be some rationalisation between these two articles. Indie (music) discusses the broader indie movement/ethos in popular music, which encompasses indie rock, indie pop and other varieties, whereas indie rock refers to a specific subcategory of indie music which a more rock-and-roll focus. (There is indie music which is not indie rock; for example, Belle and Sebastian, Architecture In Helsinki and Saint Etienne are hardly "rock", and yet they are characteristically indie.)
I propose integrating those parts about the broader indie ethos/values which aren't already in indie (music) to there and removing them from the Indie rock article, which should focus specifically on the history and characteristics rock-oriented varieties of indie music.Acb 23:34, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
- The article is still a very apocryphal, POV, and weasel-word mess. Almost every sentence is a "some say this but some say that"; the back and forth gives me whiplash! Better that one or two central definitions be pulled out and discussed as differing viewpoints on indie. And yes, the music and rock articles need to be made sane with each other. --Dhartung | Talk 07:19, 30 May 2005 (UTC)