Talk:Falun Gong

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It is suggested that new readers of this "talk page" read the archived discussion below. It is likely that an issue of concern has already been discussed. As a result, a would-be poster can save the Wikipedian community time and effort spent on otherwise rehashing an issue if this responsbility is undertaken. Archived discussion:

• /archive1, 1 April 2003 - 29 May 2005

Contents

1 Archiving 2 Justification for comments 3 Recent Edits (reference to those prior to 05/30/05) 3.1 In General 3.2 The Lead 3.3 Purifying the Body 3.4 Other Beliefs 3.5 Falun Gong Presence in Major Metropolitan Areas 4 Gong 5 Vancouver Addition to Foreign Views on Falun Gong 6 Protests are political statements 7 FLG's political sources 8 recent edit

Archiving

Greetings. The previous talk page was so large that it was getting difficult to navigate, so it has all been stored at /archive1. Please remember that this isn't the place to vent our spleens in condemnation or gush praise for Falungong itself as much as it is to comment on the actual article content. We don't want a puff piece for Falungong or Li Hongzhi, neither do we want to demonise them. If we have an objectively neutral, factual article one hopes the truth will speak for itself, however we may subjectively perceive it. Fire Star 05:53, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

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I was just looking at those pictures in the article with the practitioners sitting peacefully in meditation and the CCP police are arresting them. I also saw these brutal torture methods (http://www.faluninfo.net/torturemethods2/) that the CCP use to ___________ practitioners (what do they do it for again?).

<sarcasm> Man, those practitioners sure had it coming to them! They should have never tried to improve themselves, find inner peace, meditate, cultivate to higher levels, or align themselves with Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forebearance. Best yet, once the practitioners started complaining about the "correction" the CCP was trying to perform on them, they went and tried to reveal it to the rest of the world! What a big bunch of whiners. That is sooooooo political! They are clearly much more interested in politics than they are in trying to stop the torture, brainwashing, and forced slave labor that is enacted upon them. All the torment practitioners received prior to trying to create awareness about the torment itself, was just their future punishment for when they would get political about it. Pshaa! It is an open and shut case; the CCP clearly knows best! </sarcasm> 128.186.122.147 05:25, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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Hi,I'm writing this to ask if I can add some content like how Falun Gong promote itself in China(thing like using email, chat bot, Instant Messaging Tools bot - QQ, change TV program to their program and painting 'Falun Gong is Good' on the wall of my back yard). And maybe I can provide some screenshots but unfortunely don't have a picture of my back yard wall cuz I already cleaned it long times ago(spend my half day). But it did quite popular for a period of time a few years ago, if you in China you know. :/ --80.235.142.144 06:47, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Greetings 80.235.142.144. If you could provide links to news stories or other journalism relating to the activities you mention, we would be happy to include them in the article. We have to be able to verify that they engage in such activities. Fire Star 06:57, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Experience of use spam[1] (http://search.minghui.org/mh/articles/2004/1/6/64149.html)[2] (http://search.minghui.org/mh/articles/2004/7/27/80358.html),[3] (http://search.minghui.org/mh/articles/2005/2/11/95230.html), chat robot[4] (http://search.minghui.org/mh/articles/2004/8/31/83043.html), Chatroom [5] (http://search.minghui.org/mh/articles/2005/2/11/95286.html), massive mail[6] (http://search.minghui.org/mh/articles/2005/1/29/94463.html) and nuisance call[7] (http://search.minghui.org/mh/articles/2005/1/10/93168.html) to promote Falun Gong. About the source: according to List of words blocked by search engines in Mainland China, minghui.org is The official website of Falun Gong.

Here is a link to the search results for the article I mentioned in the lead section. It apparently now requires that you pay for it to access it since it's in the archives, so I've also copied out the question about the accusation of Falun Gong being a cult. Let me know if you want me to put more of it on the comments page since I have access to the article right now.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0B14F635550C7B8CDDA10894D1494D81&incamp=archive:search

Question: Falun Gong has been described as a cult. Is that description fair?

Answer: A cult advocates end-of-the-world theories and leads people to do many bad things. I am only teaching people the practice for healing and fitness. Not only that, I am teaching people to have good moral characters. I think this is good and meaningful to society. The Chinese Government accused me of advocating a doomsday and of saying I can delay the end of the world by 30 years. That's really ridiculous. And very often people assume that in order to study the Great Way of Falun they would have to live like a monk and give up everything. Actually, all practitioners are members of society; they do ordinary things just like anyone else. Perhaps more specifically, cults don't tolerate dissent. Do practitioners of Falun Gong have differing opinions? Or do they tend to be of one mind on most things? Normally people who do not like the principles of truthfulness, compassion and tolerance would not be very likely to study Falun Gong. Only the people who like these principles would come to learn. But people come and go as they please, you know; it's voluntary.

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Here are some quotes by the cult's founder and guru:

"The change in human society has been quite frightening! People would stop at nothing in doing evil things such as drug abuse and drug dealing. A lot of people have done many bad deeds. Things such as organized crime, homosexuality, and promiscuous sex, etc., none are the standards of being human. How do Buddhas look at these issues? Your government permits them. Laws permit them. Still, it is only the approval by mankind itself. The principles of heaven do not permit them!" (http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/xnjf1.htm)

"Nowadays some people not only are bent solely on profit, but also stop at nothing in doing evil. They commit all manner of crimes for money, killing and framing innocent people, redeeming lives with money, practising homosexuality, taking drugs among many other things." (http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zfl.htm)

"Think about it, isn't man on the brink of danger? Your government permits it, your country permits it, and your nation permits it. Even you approve of it in your mind and consciousness; it is not necessarily good. So look at what is happening in today's society, drug taking, drug trafficking, drug making, trans-sexuality, homosexuality, sexual liberation, underworld, etc. These things emerge in an endless stream. Selfishness and desires have made people wary of each other and without any right mind. Various phenomena of a degenerated human society abound everywhere and in all walks of life, like in so-called modern art, rock and roll, the madness of demonic nature during soccer games, etc. Such phenomena penetrate into every aspect of society. The deterioration of the human heart has reversed human concepts. Good is taken as bad while bad is seen as good. Human concepts have been reversed. Taking money and fame by force, advocating the philosophy of competition, and glorifying the heads of gangsters. You tell me, are they still human beings?

Some people claim how great the Greek culture was, but where did the people go? However, today one can find something from the Greek culture: the culture left from Greeks is definitely something from the final period of the development of the Greek civilization. We found that there was also homosexuality in it, and other things such as promiscuous sex. Besides, life was very extravagant, corrupted, and very degenerated. It can be seen that the human race had already highly deteriorated. Why did it disappear? It was because of its low morality." (http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/mgjf.htm)

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Justification for comments

From article The practice of Falun Gong is currently present in more than 60 countries across the world; government reactions range from open acceptance (United States) to tolerance (Australia) to suspicion (Japan,Indonesia and Singapore) to unconstitutional arrests (France) to persecution(China).

In what way is Falun Gong treated differently in the United States 'open acceptance' to Australia marked as 'tolerance'. Given both countries permit Falun Gong but do not themselves endorse it, isn't Falun Gong treated the same for both? At the least, there should be justification for the distinction. Readyfreddy 23:28, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

You are correct. The "open acceptance" statement seems to be POV pushing a bit. I'll change it. Fire Star 23:32, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually, if anything it's "embracement" in the United States considering the government gave Li Hongzhi awards and honorable citizenship. Not to mention he was a candidate for the Nobel peace price on, I think, on more than one occassion. Some cities in the U.S. even have declared some days of the year to be "Falun Dafa Day." As I have no resources to present at this time, these sorts of things cannot be put in the article but maybe they answer your question. --Mas5353 03:33, 29 May 2005 (EST)

I think calling Jiang Zemin a President is kinda misleading, because a President is someone who is elected by the people. But in China there are no elections... it is only the party itself which made him head of party - and because there are no other parties - it made him head of state. People like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao, had the exact same position as him, and you americans wouldn't call these people President either would you?

And that comparison with how Falun Gong is supposed to be treated differently in different countries... I think it's also kinda missleading. Because whats the difference beetween the US and Countries like Singapour or Indonesia ? Right... the US is not dependend on China, and even hates communism. So is it a coincidents that all those countries that are supposed to be "suspicous" regarding Falun Gong, are neigboors of China? So isn't it still only the Communist Party that wants to "wipe out" Falun Gong?

Before the Communist Party started it's persecution their weren't any incidents in any country. Why should there have been? Those are just people doing those exercises and stuff. It was only after the Communist Party started persecuting them, that they started all those activities to stop the persecution... Now the Communist Party tries to justify their actions and says that Falun Gong is getting political (and in China getting political is a VERY negative term, cause basicly only the party is allowed to "get political")

Now people say "look Falun Gong practitioners are getting involved in politics, even though their principles say that one should not get involved in politics."

But the fact is that with whatever activities they did, their only aim was to stop the persecution.

So that's why I would say that the way the text is right now, one can't really say that it is wrong, but it is definetly very misleading.

And there is another sentence in the article... and this one is simply wrong:

"China's state-run media have produced many reports claiming that some believers hurt or kill themselves after reading the books by Li Hongzhi, although few such reports have been verified by independent parties."

I changed this line. If this really is true, than please someone put it back and name one of theese "independent parties" who verifed those deaths... because as a matter of fact Amnesty International made the following statement:

"As a human rights organization, we were appalled and taken aback when we got reliable information from China that people who practice Falun Gong exercises have been rounded up, tortured and imprisoned without any due process.(...) One thing that surprised us was why the Chinese government is so scared of this movement. This movement is not a political movement. This movement is not there to overthrow the government. As a matter of fact, Gail Rachlin even gave an open invitation to the Chinese government to have a dialogue with them to understand each other so they can move forward. This is primarily average citizens of China who are exercising their fundamental rights. As a human rights organization, we did not document even one single incident where a Falun Gong member has hurt even an average citizen in their practices. They've never done any harm to other people, so why do you round up these people and imprison them?"

T. Kumar Amnesty International's director for asia and the pacific

And here is another quote by the U.N. :

"Statement by International Education Development in the United Nations (and now part of UN’s official records) Sub-Commission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights Fifty-third session, Agenda item 6 August, 2001

(...) In our statement under item 3 we described the Falun Gong Practice as we have found it to be. The government, in exercise of the right to reply, attempted to justify its State terrorism against the group by calling it an “evil cult" that has caused deaths and the break-up of families. In our investigation, the only deaths have been at the hands of the Chinese authorities; families have been broken up because family members have been killed by the regime; people have been broken down, not by Falun Gong, but by extreme torture, incarceration in mental hospitals with brutal treatment, hard labour in labour camps and other such practices. As was reported in the International Herald Tribune on August 6, 2001, the regime admits that it has officially sanctioned violence against practitioners in order to wipe out Falun Gong. The regime points to a supposed self-immolation incident in Tiananmen Square on January 23, 2001 as proof that Falun Gong is an "evil cult”. However, we have obtained a video of that incident that in our view proves that this event was staged by the government. We have copies of that video available for distribution. In his most recent report (U.N. Doc. E/CN.4/2001/66), the Commission's Special Rapporteur on Torture attests to tens of thousands detained and tortured practitioners. (Paras. 246-290). The Commission's Special Rapporteurs on Violence against Women and Extrajudicial Executions also attest to these abuses, with similar indications as to numbers. (E/CN.4/2001/73/Add.1, para. 19; E/CN.4/2001/[ ]). We are compiling evidence indicating that at least 50,000 Falun Gong practitioners are detained in prisons, labour camps or mental hospitals, of which thousands are beaten and many tortured to death. Hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of practitioners are severely threatened. The UN mechanisms clearly cannot handle this volume of verified cases, nor can the international community easily cope with perhaps millions of asylum seekers -- all of whom would clearly meet asylum criteria. Accordingly, the international community as a whole and the Sub-Commission in particular should address this situation of State terrorism as one of extreme urgency."

Recent Edits (reference to those prior to 05/30/05)

Recent edits to the article seem very thoughtful, though, I think some issues of NPOV were present and I have adjusted them accordingly. One thing, however, is that most of these changes resulted in a transformation of context and/or loss of content (surprising considering that they were done by an administrator). Although the intention was stated as being one thing, the outcome involved more. Please make changes to content in manageable doses and discuss on this "talk" page those which change the context of the article or take away content. --Mas5353 03:51, 30 May 2005

In General

It seems there is some inconsistency throughout the article with respect to the use of the word "Falun Gong." Let's be clear that "Falun Gong" is a practice and that people who practice it are probably best referred to as practitioners or followers. Some uses of "Falun Gong" that I have corrected use the words to refer to everyone that practices it as a group or organization (i.e "Falun Gong denies that..."). Using the words in that context causes ambiguity as it's not clear whether the words are referring to the teachings of Falun Gong, it's creator, or all practitioners. As a result, that sort of use can imply things that are not factual (such as all practitioners believe or think a parituclar thing), I believe, so we should be careful of this. Please comment if you think this sort of simplification isn't a good idea. --Mas5353 00:40, 30 May 2005 (EST)

Consistency is a good thing. There is falungong (the more normative pinyin based romanisation) which is the exercise system, and Falundafa, which is the organisation, and then the writings and public pronouncements of Li. A rewrite to more clearly delineate the three would be very welcome. Fire Star 05:08, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

It is my understanding that Falun Dafa (or Falun Gong) is not an organization and practitioners firmly reject all connotation involved with being one. Furthermore, I gather from the Chinese language that the literal meanings of "Falun Gong" and "Falun Dafa" may be different, though practitioners interchange them freely. Whether this is another idiosyncrasy or something linguistically legal, who knows. The interesting part of this fact (that Falun Dafa is not an organization) is that it is the direct cause as to why nobody knows for sure how many Falun Dafa practitioners there are, causing reliance upon all these surveys and estimates. Does anybody have any idea why certain individuals or groups insist on labeling Falun Gong and it's practitioners as an organization, where practitioners find it so important to maintain that there is none? Forgive and disregard this if it is beyond the intention of this discussion page. --Mas5353 02:15, 30 May 2005 (EST)

My understanding is that falungong is the exercise routine taught by Falundafa followers. I can't recall where, but I have read that some prefer to be labelled as Falundafa instead of falungong. Falungong, however, is how they are best known to the public. It is a good question, I just wish I had a better answer! Fire Star 06:37, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

The Lead

In an attempt at eliminating redundancy some content was removed. However, though well proposed, I believe contextual supporting language (as well as actual information) was lost and have added or reworded some things that I thought to be a good compromise. Comments welcome. --{User:Mas5353|Mas5353]] 00:44, 30 May 2005 (EST)

How about:

"However, the public teachings of Falun Gong discourage political involvement, and practitioners claim to have little interest in politics."? Fire Star 04:57, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Sounds even more appropriate. If you haven't already put it in, I will Mas5353 01:00, 30 May 2005 (EST)

The lead currently states that "the basis for denial is said to be found in Falun Gong's teachings, which claim that their practice encompasses the entire universe, and that the Buddhist and Taoist schools don't." In reading about Falun Gong and its teachings, had not made the leap between the universality of Falun Gong expressed in its teachings and practitioners' claims that it is not a cult. If such an explanation is to be made in the article, I think it needs to be said what about the teachings' claims to universality keep Falun Gong from being a cult according to practitioners (maybe it would be useful to address the definition of a cult). I understand it to be more significant that the teachings are meant to lead people to be what a practitioner would call "good people"--that is, hardworking, unselfish, etc.--and that they do not lead practitioneres to harm others or themselves, or to cut themselves off from society as cults are generally said to do. On August 8th 1999, soon after the ban in China, an interview with Li Hongzhi was published by the New York Times entitled "Eye of the Storm" in which he responds to a question on this issue. Although it is a few years old now, I think his response is still relevant. --134.173.232.70

I believe you've got a good point, but the description/definition of a cult already resides within its own article. I would think that readers could almost be expected to make their own contrast/comparison between those qualities of a cult and the teachings of Falun Dafa presented here. Whether there is currently sufficient information present to do that is debatable. Perhaps the current written treatment of Falun Dafa's teachings needs attention. Or, perhaps a new section devoted to your topic could be added to this article, that is, an NPOV comparison of Falun Dafa teachings vs the characteristics of a cult. What do others think? With respect to your NYT interview: could you post a link to that article in the references section? Thanks ;) --Mas5353 20:08, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It seems to me that the information needed to determine whether or not Falun Dafa is a cult can't be found in Falun Dafa's teachings. Cult status depends a great deal on how other people perceive Falun Dafa. In addition the actual practices of Falun Dafa members (practioners?) are very relevent. Given the ambiguity and social nature of the concept of "cult", I doubt that a complete rebuttal could be found in Falun Dafa's teachings.RampagingCarrot 22:17, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I guess to the point I really wanted to make is that this is not in my experience the reasoning Falun Dafa practitioners use to refute claims that Falun Dafa is a cult, which this sentence seems to suggest it is. I emailed the site to a few practitioners I know, and the one who's gotten back to me confirmed this: she said that it was a very good article with the exception of that one sentence, for that reason. The first things they seem to point to the things I mentioned above--that individuals must not be forced or pressured into practicing Falun Dafa, that practitioners are not to cut themselves off from society or disasociate with people because of Dafa, and that they are not to harm themselves or others (quite the contrary!). I would agree that the definition of a cult is pretty ambiguous; I think RampagingCarrot is likely to be right about any sort of complete rebuttal. As far as creating a new section is concerned, I don't necessarily think it's needed, as long as the information given is accurate. I do think that it's important to keep the mention the rebuttal practitioners usually give to this question, though.

I've edited the sentence I mentioned above to express what I was trying to say before. I hope the way I've changed it is acceptable to the rest of you working on this page.

Purifying the Body

I'm not exactly sure why the information and distinction concerning "meditation" and "karma" was removed. They seem to be important pieces of information offering distinction to Falun Gong and carrying unique interpretations within the practice. I've put them back in. I've also made a small correction concerning the emphasis of the exercises supported by information found in " Zhuan Falun (http://www.falundafa.org/eng/books.htm#zhuanfalun). --Mas5353 02:49, 30 May 2005 (EST)

Other Beliefs

An edit I've reverted here seems to be done out of an either unresearched or very POV context. Much scientific evidence has been provided, not only in Zhuan Falun but in scientific journals, stating that human beings have certain, once thought to be supernatural, abilities (such as ESP vs brain wave interception). Please read your resources before making edits such as this. It really is a brave new world that we are living in. --Mas5353 03:07, 30 May 2005 (EST)

Falun Gong Presence in Major Metropolitan Areas

I dont' know why the most recent edit to this section (which I reverted) was done without discussion first, as the articles current substance in this section was the outcome of much deliberation on the archived talk page. I'm especially surprised considering it was done by an "administrator." --Mas5353 03:49, 30 May 2005

Gong

Gōng 功 means "achievement, merit, good result." Falungong is the only notable group that uses the word to mean "energy." Every other notable group uses it to condition or categorise another term meaning "energy." They use it as such, IME, to try to sidetrack rebuttal arguments from traditional Taoists, Buddhists and martial artists that Falungong's exercise system doesn't seem to have a mechanism that actually generates much metabolic energy, arguments to put themselves above traditional styles of qigong to their potential adherents. An unsubstantiated argument, at best. I don't want to actually say in the article that their arguments in this regard (among others) are designed to denigrate all other schools to make themselves look better, so instead I simply point out that their use of the term is unique to them. Since they are the only ones who can be demonstrated to use the word in such a sense, "idiosyncratic" is appropriate. Fire Star 04:15, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

功 gōng /merit/achievement/result/service/accomplishment/

功夫 gōng fu /skill/art/kung fu/labor/effort/

功绩 gōng jī /feat/

功课 gōng kè /classwork/

功劳 gōng láo /contribution/meritorious/credit/

功率 gōng lǜ /power(the output of an engine)/

功率恶化 gōng lǜ è huà /power penalty/

功能 gōng néng /function/

功能集 gōng néng jí /function library/

功能群 gōng néng qún /functional group/

功效 gōng xiào /(n) efficacy/

Fire Star 04:23, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Vancouver Addition to Foreign Views on Falun Gong

I'm placing this here since my comments on the user's page have been ignored. Mas persists in removing information about the Falun Gong protest in Vancouver, Canada. Clearly s/he has no knowledge of this protest, which is now in its fourth year. At any rate, I object strongly to this user's edit summaries (the first of which was something like "Wikipedia is not a blog") and to the unliateral removal of relevant and factual information.

I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding Exploding Boy. I didn't ignore your comments on my User page. I had no idea they were there (as I don't check my User page because it's a page about me, not for messages to me. I only know if you're trying to communicate with me if you leave a message on my Talk page (as you so correctly did in your second attempt) because it notifies me that I have messages available. Please do not get upset and offer a little more forebearance. Thank you. --Mas5353 05:54, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Mas: I've been here longer than you. A simple look at my user page and contributions would have alleviated any concerns that I'm simply adding nonsense. The Vancouver Falun Gong protest is well known. This type of addition does not, strictly speaking, require a citation, since it is easily verifiable (ie: by looking), well known, and the text contains no numbers. I suggest that you err on the side of discussion in future, rather than knee-jerk reversion. Exploding Boy 18:23, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that this is relevant information, there has been a similar protest in London, which I may add to this section, and set-up a subheading entitled something like 'Ongoing protests'. Mas5353 can see by reading the statement at the top of the page that he/she is required to discuss edits in line with Wikipedia policy, especially when there is no clear reason to delete the information in my opinion. Solar 20:17, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you, but users are also required to post in line with Wikipedia policy. I'm afraid that the addition isn't as well known as the poster suggests (wouldn't it be nice if all citizens of China knew about it), not to mention that this article has been dubbed controversial, so extra care and consideration should be taken (such as citing sources, which should be done anyway) because of its potential influence. I suggest that not adhering to or taking into consideration this sort of principle inhibits "clarifying the truth" and improving the article, as well as ourselves. --Mas5353 05:54, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

From the Vancouver Courier's website: [8] (http://www.vancourier.com/issues04/052204/news/052204nn2.html) Fire Star 21:24, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for providing a resource, Fire Star, not only so that Wikipedians are able to check the addition, but to show me how verifiable the addition is. I will add it in. I suggest (to everyone) that it doesn't matter who you are what you have accomplished at Wikipedia, it doesn't make you right. Only resources can substantiate additions. Based on what you've asserted, Exploding Boy, anybody can edit a page with any intentions and nobody should do anything about it, regardless of it's content unless it was first discussed on the discussion page. In whatever time it took to do that, that edit has the potential for polluting the article. That is not right, as the addition is not supported; it is just hearsay. I apologize for any "jerk-like" deletions without discussion first, but I think the reasons I've provided above clealry express my rationale. I did it out of consideration for all beings involved, and in an aim to maintain the integrity of all parties involved. --Mas5353 05:54, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that maybe this addition to the article:

"Falun Gong supporters in Vancouver, Canada continue to stage what they claim is the world's longest-running continuous protest against China's treatment of Falung Gong practitioners. The protest, which runs twenty-four hours a day, is located at the entrance to the Chinese Consulate on Granville Street."

might better belong under Falun Gong Presence in Major Metropolitan Areas. What do yall think? --Mas5353

Protests are political statements

I have amended the article to reflect that, while Falungong may not consider what they do in their protests to be political, most of the rest of the world considers such protests to be inherently political posturing, for good or ill. It could probably be worded better, if anyone else would care to have a go at it. Fire Star 20:21, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid that that is nothing more than your interpretation. Not even Wikipedia's article on protest asserts such a slippery over-generalization. It seems you want to promote your POV that this is the case. Why not link to protest and let the reader deside if protest should be painted in such a light You can have protests that aren't political and have nothing to do with the government. Sometimes people just want to make people aware of what's going on. Besides, if a government entity is brutally torturing, brainwashing, and forcing slave labor on a group of people, and (not so surprisingly) those people would like this to come to an end, how do you expect them to go about it? How do you expect them to make the world aware of this? Or do you think that this sort of thing should be allowed to happen, Fire Star? As the persecuted group of people is defenseless, and they are forced to protest, can you really call them political? If anything, wasn't it that persecuting government that made it political (as they are a government afterall)? --Mas5353 06:54, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Because of the distortion and slant of your edit, I've moved it below for discussion and reverted the article it to the previous one. Fire Star, lately your edits appear to have more motive and be less NPOV, and as an administrator you have more responsibility to withold this urge. I'm citing this to the Wiki authorities. --Mas5353 06:54, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The edit:

Since the persecution of the practice in China, the CCP claims that the practice has deviated its focus from engaging in spiritual cultivation to engaging in politics, basing their opinions on political protests by Falun Gong followers and the existence of numerous websites disparate from, yet in support of, Falun Gong (such as Friends of Falun Gong (http://www.fofg.org)). While the teachings of Falun Gong are said to forbid political involvement, and practitioners claim publicly to have little interest in power or politics, pro-Falun Gong political protests are a fact of life in many major metropolitan centres in the West.

Oh dear. Actually, only the last little bit was mine. FWIW, I am aware that articles are owned by the community at large and not by a single person or group. I meant to introduce some balance to the statement by Falungong that Falungong doesn't have any political agenda. A public protest is political, it is an attempt, by action, publicity, propaganda, etc., to persuade observers to another point of view. Regardless of whether they claim they are forced to protest, they are still reacting in a political way to the political suppression of their movement. That contradicts their public position, at least a little. Perhaps that is a better way to put it. You may certainly report me to whomever you'd like, I'll be happy to discuss things... Fire Star 00:55, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

FLG's political sources

Many people in the Chinese community tend to see FLG as a political group, as shown by the FLG backed newspaper 'Dajiyuan', in which it accused the Chinese Communist Party of being an 'evil Satanist cult'. In the wave of FLG crackdowns, Li Hongzhi allowed his followers to make political statements about the ongoing events, as long as they don't link them to him. Many former FLG practitioners has quit due to the over-politicalization of the group.

recent edit

Removed an reference [9] (http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2001/7/20/12423.html) to the English version of Minghui.org, the official website of Falun Gong because it is not an EpochTimes article, fine. Removed another reference[10] (http://search.minghui.org/mh/articles/2004/8/31/83043.html) because it has no English translation, fine. But I see no reason to keep the remain paragraph, since these internet promotion metioned there are not massive, not worth to report, and thus not influential enought to "spreading the truth of the universe" (from another removed reference[11] (http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2001/12/14/16810.html)).

People may get so comfortable with spreading the truth that regard sending emails to tens of people at time as usual.