Talk:Domestic AC power plugs and sockets

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	Find out the name of the standard for French plugs Add more facts to all sections, then as each of them becomes bloated, write a summary and move the bulk of the content to a specific article (already done with the following:) Industrial & multiphase power plugs & sockets List of countries with mains power plugs, voltages & frequencies Appliance classes Schuko BS 1363 Europlug Add the wiring colours for other countries More info on Japanese plug More info on obsolete plugs Take better-quality photos of items Exact dimensions of plugs (e.g. type D, BS 546, 5 amp) The British "Electric Clock Connector" (i put a brief description of this on unusual and obsolete plugs and sockets Plugwash 20:02, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Contents

1 old sections moved to subpages

2 Ambiguity of some terms

3 French plug

4 Why does this page have "domestic" in the title

5 Light switch

6 Edison Plug

7 Timeline

8 Type I (Australian 2/3-pin)

9 Case ground via neutral

10 Plugs and sockets in the media

11 New title (& -> and)

12 Other plugs into BS1363 ring circuits

13 "Safety notes" section

14 "Safety notes"

15 Safety Notes

16 Extra safety notes (for your reference)

17 Extra safety notes for existing installations

old sections moved to subpages

newcomers to this article should still read theese but they were making the talk page unwildly

the subpages should be considered archives if you need to comment on one of those topics do it here and reference the subpage with a link (comments made directly on the subpages are likely to be missed) we can merge the new stuff into the archive page when the discussion goes cold

Ambiguity of some terms

Hi everybody.
  I am working on a translation of this article into German. At a first glance I found two things I do not quite understand.
  The first one is that about the "British site isolation transformer". What is it exactly? Does it isolate whole sites — e.g. buildings, industrial zones — from the general neutral level, or is it just used "on site" to do this work for a restricted number of connected devices. While it's rather obvious why it could be done in the second case — what should it be good for in the first one? Or is this already the answer to my question? I checked it on google, but I only get the info that a site isolation transformer is a "big yellow thing". And that's not even a British one. Not very informative.
  The second ambiguity is in the paragraph on the NEMA 2-15, 2-20, and 2-30 plugs. There it says "The 2-15 has both pins rotated 90 degrees; the 2-20 has one pin rotated 90 degrees, and the 2-30 is rotated." So, in how far is the 2-30 rotated, then?
  Any helpful answers are welcome.

Ralf -- Omegator 23:16, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

ok the first question i can answer the trnansformers are used to run power tools on building sites and give an output of 110V centre tapped (so each side of the output is at 55V relative to earth) the output sockets are usually of the IEC 309 110V industrial variety on the smaller transformers usually the 16A

as to the second question i've looked at an external link that lists it (look at the links on industrial and multiphase power plugs) but im unsure on the meaning of the diagrams there probablly best if an american answers that one Plugwash 18:10, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick answer. Well, what you say about the isolation transformers makes a lot of sense. You get a voltage below the critical 60 V relative to earth and can run 110V devices.

As for the 2-30: in the diagrams linked under lots of diagrams of non-locking american recepticles the 2-30 looks very much like the 1-15 as the positions of the pins is concerned. So we'd really better wait for an "insider" to get it right. I think this should also be put right in the article.

Omegator 23:35, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

ok i've decided to comment it out of the english version of the article for now until someone can fix it. I think its a pretty rare type anyway if some american who has heared of it wants to put it back with proper information then i welcome them doing so. if you are going to make a translation of this page then its probablly best to keep it on your watchlist so you can migrate improvements over. Plugwash 19:46, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

French plug

seems we have no pictures of french plugs (i mean plugs for france only NOT the CEE 7/7 combo plugs) i tried looking at the french wikipedia but i don't speak french and was unable to find anything even with the help of autotranslators.

anyone here able to produce such a photo? Plugwash 00:27, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well i found someone in the end after much pestering of people in #fr.wikipedia on freenode Plugwash 10:07, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why does this page have "domestic" in the title

The plugs listed here are used for normal appliances in most situations NOT merely in domestic situatations. I propose the title of General purpose AC power plugs and sockets. any comments? Plugwash 18:51, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Why not just "AC power plugs and sockets"? Gene Nygaard 19:12, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

All the relevant IEC standards [1] (http://www.iec.ch/zone/plugsocket/ps_standards.htm) make a clear distinction in their title between "domestic and similar general use" or "household and similar purposes" plugs on one side and "industrial purposes" on the other. The "domestic" ones are generally intended for currents below 16 A and single-phase applications where there is only one single voltage and frequency. The "industrial" ones are designed for higher currents, possibly multi-phase, higher mechanical robustness, and with coding systems to allow the safe coexistance of different voltages and different frequencies on sockets in the same building. So if you don't like the "domestic" in the title, it could in principle be expanded to "domestic and general-purpose". However, I prefer to simply leave it as it is. Markus Kuhn 17:29, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Not sure i was considering that one but then i thought about pages like industrial and multiphase plugs and sockets.

Another possibility would be to split this article putting the general section (stuff that isn't specifc to plug type) at "AC power plugs and sockets" and then having the actual socket types split between "general purpose AC power plugs and sockets" and "Industrial & multiphase power plugs & sockets". Im not sure what the procedure for making a major split of a featured article is though. Do both become features one become featured or neither become featured?

I think things should stay as they are. Chamaeleon 16:16, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The article says The situation in the United Kingdom is slightly more clear-cut, with BS 1363 plugs (3 to 13 amperes, depending on the fuse inside) almost universal in homes.. One reference I have(Boy Electrican, 8th ed., 1965) says there were up until 1950 three sizes of round-pin plugs (2 A, 5 A and 15 A) and since that time a single 13-A plug with flat pins. This doesn't sound very clear to me at all; in the US and Canada I can travel from St. John's to Victoria, from Iqaluit to El Paso, 20 million square kilometres, in buildings where the paint is still wet down to homes that got knob-and-tube wiring during the Great Depression, and any appliance small enough to lift will plug in without adapters. How prevalent are old-style plugs in UK homes? Do British appliances still come without plugs? --Wtshymanski 16:45, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

All British appliances come today with a BS 1363 plug fitted to the chord. However, the cords all come with a warning label that explains the colouring scheme of the chord to anyone who thinks they must replace the plug. This may have been a sensible idea 30 years ago, but is today a ridiculous anachronism. IMHO, it is time the relevant standard gets updated. Markus Kuhn 17:29, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

2 5 and 15A bs546 plugs are still seen in the uk although more often than not in specialist applications. but i still thik its sensible having stickers that explain the color scheme for anyone who does need to put a new plug on. for example they may want to fit an IEC plug to fit thier ups or a waterproof plug for outdoor use or simply fit a new 13A plug after cutting the original off to thread the flex through a small hole in a shelf worksurface or whatever. Plugwash 00:25, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Light switch

Contributors to this page should probably take a look at Light switch, which at the moment is almost entirely about switches in the United States. Jooler 09:02, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

seen it and it needs ome form of reconcilation with switch but im not sure what yet. (i think this was an unsigned comment of mine but i don't remember for sure Plugwash)

Edison Plug

The Type A and B connectors (American 2 and 3 pin) are frequently (at least in the theater and film industries) referred to as "Edison plugs". This information doesn't appear anywhere else on Wikipedia. Would it be appropriate to add it here, or perhaps create a page on theater and film terminology? Guido del Confuso 02:19 2005-Jan-15 (UTC)

I would want to see sources backing this up. The name seems like a misnomer which makes me dubious about the inclusion of this without strong sources. Plugwash 02:22, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm... I'm not sure where the term comes from, but I know that it is regularly used in film and theater. A Google search for "Edison plug" turns up about 1500 (mostly theater equipment related) hits, and "Edison connector" turns up almost 300 more. My guess is that it has something to do with the Edison power company rather than Thomas Edison himself. Guido del Confuso 05:26 2005-Jan-15 (UTC)

I've added this information to the section about type B. Is it definitely also used for type A? I did a Google search and it seemed to refer to type B. What do you mean by "theater": actual theatres, or cinemas? I don't know of the Edison Power Company. Is it big in the US? Is it likely that the term comes from them? Chamaeleon 11:45, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, the truth is that most people in the US don't make much of a distinction between the grounded type and the ungrounded type of plug. More often than not "Edison plug" will refer to the three pin kind because that's what's generally used, but people will also use it to refer to the two pin kind. This is as opposed to, say, twist-lock [2] (http://www.stayonline.com/reference/nema_twistlock.asp) or stage pin [3] (http://www.proformance.net/Catalog/stage_pin_connector_452192.htm) which are the most frequently used connectors for lighting equipment. By theater I mean actual theaters where plays are performed. My guess is that the term actually originates in theater: Consolidated Edison provides electricity for most of New York City--the major center of theater production in the US. The term "Edison" was therefore used to refer to the sort of "generic" power connector you might find that could plug into anyone's wall outlet. Again, this is just a guess as to the name--theater and film etymology, like most etymology of slang and professional terms, is shrouded in mystery. Guido del Confuso 23:57 2005-Jan-15 (UTC)

I'm just adding my confirmation of this fact -- "normal" US household connectors are called "Edison plugs" in theatre settings. This is almost universally true in the US -- nearly any stagehand who works with electrics will understand what you mean. It is especially used to distinguish from "stage pin" and "twist-lock" connectors, as a theatrical production may use any or all of those (my show, for example, uses Edison connectors for moving lights, stage pin connectors for conventionals, and twist-lock for special FX lights.) kmccoy (talk) 03:09, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Timeline

Anyone happen to have information on when each plug type was put into use?

Type I (Australian 2/3-pin)

I'd like to mention that Australian plugs have insulated pins (and have had for a few years) but I'm unsure about removing the information on the regulations (perhaps it should be left in) - Diceman 15:08, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Case ground via neutral

In the US only the cases of clothes dryers and cooking appliances were permitted to be grounded to the neutral. Though I have no cite for it, I've read somewhere ( probably on the Mike Holt Web site) that this was meant to save copper during WWII. Since the 1996 revision of the U.S. NEC it is no longer permitted for new installations. It was misleading for the article to say that "appliances" in general used the neutral for grounding and I have removed that sentence for this reason. Typical 2-wire portable devices like lighting, etc. didn't use a case ground. No portable appliance could ever rely on the return pin actually being near earth potential since there are innumerable ways to defeat this, even after the introduction of polarized plugs. Grounding of these cases to the neutral was not to my knowledge ever permitted in the Canadian electrical code, though the oldest copy I have access to is only from 1984.--Wtshymanski 06:01, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Plugs and sockets in the media

This month's issue of National Geographic has a one-page article about the world's plugs and sockets. --Wtshymanski 04:36, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

What did it say? — Chameleon 08:54, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

A precis of the National Geographic article from the June 2005 issue: Harvey Hubbell patented a plug in 1904, eliminating the need for an electrican to hook up appliances. The US standardized on that plug in the early 1900's, but world-wide there are 13 different systems in use. European Union CENELEC hasn't yet standardized on a plug design, so sockets now take different types. Voltage and frequency are different, though everyone uses AC. A Hubbell employee says he hopes one day plugs will be standaradized the world round, but doesn't expect to see that in our lifetimes. There's a map showing 5 different zones of plug use, but the types and voltages aren't described. No facts worthy of adding to the Wikipedia article, in my opinion. --Wtshymanski 16:16, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

New title (& -> and)

Using "and" in a title is preferred: see naming conventions. I am in the process of cleaning up the redirects, etc. (I read and noted the previous discussion on page title, which didn't establish a clear favorite for "&"). Demi ^T/_C 21:52, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

i kinda agree. i think the thing that put others off was after all the other comprimises the title was already very long. Plugwash 20:13, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Other plugs into BS1363 ring circuits

Someone just inserted this text:

Safety note for user in Hong Kong

Many people may bring in electrical appliances from the Mainland of the People's Republic of China. These appliances come with a CPCS-CCC plug. Note that there is no British Standard adaptor can solve the teething problem between a BS1363 socket and a CPCS-CCC plug. Even though there are relevant adaptors on the market, they are not legally sold. Lacking a BS1362 fuse, safety shutter and irregular-shaped socket holes are the weaknesses of such adaptors. The Electrical and Mechanical Services Department discourages (not prohibit) bringing in appliances from the Mainland China. For safety, Hong Kong users of Mainland appliances must have their plug replaced with a BS1363 one, fitted with a suitably rated (3A, 5A, 13A) BS1362 fuse.

While the point is valid (if we're talking about a BS1363 30/32 Amp "Ring Circuit"), I'm not sure it's unique to Mainland Chinese gadgets brought into Hong Kong. It seems to me that the point must be equally true anywhere an appliance can be brought from a world-wide typical, low-amp branch circuit into a BS1363 30/32 Amp "Ring Circuit" environment. Should the point remain in this article? And if it should, whouldn't we write it to apply more generally?

Atlant 17:15, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

go ahead and make it more general. — Chameleon 17:51, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

travel adaptors sold in the uk for visiters here are deffinately fused are you sure the ones sold in hong-kong for similar conversions are not? (i'd like photographic evidence of this since i find it very surprising). Plugwash 20:01, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I know the BS5733 visitors' adaptor sold the UK. However, they are not sold in Hong Kong.

"Safety notes" section

The safety-notes section is now getting a bit out of hand. Some of the statements in it are plain wrong, others are at least questionable or exaggerated. Some are written in an imperative or advice style, which in itself is inappropriate for an encyclopedia. Some of it has bad grammar. Whoever feels strongly about this section, please keep in mind that you are editing an encyclopedia and not a travelers' guide or the like. If you make claims (e.g., about what is safe and what is not safe), then please do so only by quoting authoritative references. Make sure that the terminology you use sticks closely to that defined in the relevant standards documents. It is not the place of the Wikipedia to tell its readers what is acceptable use of plugs, but Wikipedia can provide pointers into authoritative literature (for example IEC standards (http://www.iec.ch/zone/plugsocket/ps_standards.htm)) on that subject. I suggest that this entire article should stick closely to the content of the relevant IEC and regional standards and regulations, as opposed to becoming a wild collection of various contributor's personal opinions on the subject. There is a well-established body of literature on the safety of these plugs, based on peer-reviewed research and decades of accident statistics. We should summarize and quote that existing literature as encyclopedists, and not attempt to write our own amateur essays on the subject. Markus Kuhn 10:22, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

one anon made exccessive additions to that section with no backup at all which i have now reverted. what is there now is very basic and generalised advice on what to avoid without going into too many specifics (which would make a huge article in itself and probablly not one that is appropriate to wikipedia). Plugwash 22:43, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I put my safety notes into discussion part for your reference.

"Safety notes"

Plugwash, would you please refer to the website http://www.powerconnections.co.uk for more information regarding adaptors?

In fact, there is adaptors that allows a Schuko plug can be plugged into an UK socket that complies to BS5733.

ok it seems bsis site is just sucky. thier main search ( http://search.bsi-global.com/?format=long&restrict=&words=5733 ) found nothing but http://www.bsonline.bsi-global.com/search/results/1 did, however the standard claims to be "Specification for general requirements for electrical accessories" so it seems unlikely it would contain explicit specifications of what adaptors are and aren't allowed.

Safety Notes

Moreover, I previously made some additions to the safety note, which you guys think it is not very appropriate. But I believe that it is the case that many people do make mistakes in using adaptors.

Now I put the extra safety notes here. Please kindly do not delete. Interested readers can refer these articles. If you guys find the point made are incorrect or questionable, put your concerns here. In fact, most points made by me are reasonable, valid and worth-noticing for a travellers' guide but they are just not suitable for wikipedia.

I do think that some of the electrical travel advice on some tour guide books and discussion forums are not true or misleading, one of the books in China says: You should bring an adaptor (from China) to the UK when you study there. In fact, adaptors sold in China could not meet the relevant British Standards. They will leave the appliance unprotected by a BS1362 fuse.

And as a student studying electronic engineering (and an IEE student member) in an university in Hong Kong, I do see that so many exchange students (mainly non-engineering students) from China and overseas using adaptors inappropriately. And the examples below are the mistakes they made.

I have done some research work and read many relavent materials before editing this article of wikipedia.

Please put up with my English as I am not a native speaker. You guys can give me some recommendations on how to rewrite the essay. it would be better if there is a spell checker in wikipedia.

In the future, if I want to make a point or some 'travel advice' which is not appropriate for wikipedia, I will put it here for your reference.

British National (Overseas) from Hong Kong

Extra safety notes (for your reference)

In general, it is not advisable to bring electrical equipments from overseas countries.[4] (http://www.emsd.gov.hk/emsd/eng/pps/electricity_handbook01_2_1.shtml) Even the voltage and frequency of the equipment matches with your home system in some cases, you will probably need an adaptor or get your plug modified/replaced. However, improper modification of plug or wrong usage of adaptor (these cases are quite common as people failed to realise the not-so-obvious safety concerns) may lead to fatal consequences, for example, electric shock or fire.

If you study overseas, for safety reasons, you should purchase electrical equipments inside the country you are staying. And please refrain from bringing the equipment to you home country. Sell them to the local or international students (say at a car boot sale) staying there instead. Too many students make mistakes in using adaptors, which can be lethal.
Shaver adaptors sold in the UK are for shavers and electrical toothbrush only and should never be used for any other appliances. Never insert a Schuko or French plug into a shaver adaptor, as the fuse likely to be too weak and it is not possible to make the earth clip/strip of the plug make contact with the wiring system counterpart. Earthing is omitted in this way.
- in much of europe its common to see houses with no earths on the sockets at all yet people happilly use class 1 equipment there all the time and you very rarely seem to hear about accidents caused by this . Plugwash 14:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Common mistakes in plug modification include: (British system only)

Using a BS1362 13A fuse for the equipment that normally takes far less current (say 0.5A). Use a 3A or 5A fuse instead. See BS1363 for details.
The cord grip is not clamped on the outer layer of the power cable properly.
- using a 13A fuse for a small appliance whilst bad practice is no worse protection than those exact same small appliances get when thier unfused europlugs are plugged into sockets elsewhere in the world which tend to be on 16A or 20A breakers afaict.
  
  as for not getting the outer insulation in the cord grip again it is bad practice but before fitted plugs became the norm it was seen all the time and it didn't seem to be a huge issue. Plugwash 14:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Examples of wrongly using an adaptor include:

An user in United Kingdom/Hong Kong inserts a Schuko or French plug into a BS1363 shaver adaptor (or an adaptor with BS546 5A sockets), then insert the adaptor into a wall outlet. The earth connection is omitted in this case. It cannot be overemphasised that "shaver adaptors" are for shavers only.
- shavers only is a bit of an exaggeration. those adaptors are usually designed to take quite a variety of plugs including europlugs and 2 pin american plugs. but they are only suitable for use with small class 2 equipment (i often wonder who the fuck designed plugs with earth contacts done in such a way the plugs can be inserted into non-earthed sockets in the first place).
Some adaptors sold in Hong Kong are with irregular socket apertures and without a BS1362 fuse and without any safety shutters at the socket aperture.[5] (http://www.emsd.gov.hk/emsd/eng/pps/electricity_handbook01_2_3_1.shtml#2.3.2)
- i don't seem to be able to access that site. yes there is almost certainly shit out there but mentioning every specific case would lead to an insane ammount of text.

Extra safety notes for existing installations

Some caution is advised when working with existing installations, especially older structures with wiring that could date back decades. Formal standards may vary by jurisdiction, and may be commonly misunderstood, or outright ignored. More importantly, standards almost always change over time. Many of these changes occur when the old standards proved inadequate for safety. Older structures will often have several "generations" of wiring, with the oldest being of dubious safety by modern standards. New wiring may be improperly adapted to old wiring. Wiring can deteriorate over time. Safety features may be inadequate or bypassed. Conductors marked for safety grounding may not be properly connected to earth ground. Different installers may have different idiosyncrasies which, when combined, lead to trouble. Be alert, don't make assumptions, and test important safety features before depending on them.

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