Talk:Democratic Progressive Party

Fascism

In all the election campaign, DPP uses the tactic that "if you love Taiwan, vote for DPP", "if you are true Taiwanese, vote for DPP", "if you vote for the pan blue parties, you are not Taiwanese", and furthermore, "if you vote for the pan blue parties, you are Chinese communist", "if you are fed in Taiwanese food, you should vote for true Taiwanese", "Pan blue parties are Chinese parties, not Taiwanese" (2000 & 2004 presidential election, 1998, 2001 and 2004 legistilative yuan members election)

DPP government insists to call the Fujian dialect as "Taiwanese", people who immigrated to Taiwan from China more than 100 years ago as true "Taiwanese", while ignoring the voices of Taiwanese aboriginal people.

From the definition fo Fascism in Wikipedia,

   * exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual.
   * stresses loyalty to a single leader.
   * uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition.
   * engages in severe economic and social regimentation.
   * implements totalitarianism.

point 1: Over the years, even being more corrupted than the GMT government, its core voters follow the slogan of DPP "if you are true Taiwanese, vote for DPP". (2000 & 2004 presidential election, 1998, 2001 and 2004 legistilative yuan members election)

point 2: Chen Shui-bian. The most recent example, holding the 2004 referendum because Chen wants it, and then overturning the 2004 referendum results also because Chen doesn't like them, meanwhile millions of dollars are wasted. (2004 presidential election)

point 3: Use the "Government Information Office" to control medias with opposite openion. Control CTS, TTV and FTV and censor the news regarding opposite parties. Legalise underground radios who supported Chen in the 2004 elections.

point 4: Control the education system. In the official high school social study textbook, DPP government changed the text declares the constitution of ROC first written by GMT "may against the law", law of what is unclear.

point 5: From definition, all totalitarian régimes pose as the culmination of 'true' democracy as opposed to the liberal democracies that exercise the rule of law and respect property rights. In all elections, DPP claims that they are the true democracy, and to oppose DPP is to oppose democracy.

I would welcome Wilfried Derksen to challange the above points. bobbybuilder 18:12pm, 22 June 2005 (UTC)

I am not convinced by the 5 points that it makes the DPP fascist. I would like to see some more Taiwanese reactions on that. At the other hand, it is clearly not a neutral point of view to call this party fascist. A sentence that the party stresses Taiwanese identity is not NPOV.

I will revert the text since it is not NPOVElectionworld 20:25, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

NPOV in wikipedia means to be "neutral", not to be only "positive". If you ignore everything negative, then it is definitely not neutral. "A sentence that the party stresses Taiwanese identity is not NPOV."? Please explain. The definition is there, the facts are there, if you are not convinced, bring up other facts. Otherwise it is just your POV. bobbybuilder 22:05, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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There is no particular reason to associate racism and fascism with the DPP. I say this as a very strong supporter of the KMT.

If you want to write a deeper article into why some Taiwanese think the DPP is racist and fascist, go ahead, but simply linking DPP to articles on racism and fascism without going into detail about why, won't work.

Roadrunner 22:15, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Taiwanese vote for A-bian, Chinese vote for Lien." DPP campaign 2000, 2004. "The flooding in Kaohsiung was caused by having too many Chinese coming here." DPP Kaohsiung local government 2003.

To your second point, the details about why are there, I cannot help if you want to read selectively.

Interesting point, many DPP workers also like to go to discussion forums and claim they are loyal KMT supporters, and pretend to be very naive about the current affair. bobbybuilder 22:21, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You can look at my long record of posting on wikipedia, and decide what I really believe.

Also, I included links to racism and fascism with context. One thing that you really have to understand is that most people in the world don't know Taiwan politics, and you have to explain the situation. Linking the DPP to racism and fascism simply makes no sense to most people.

Roadrunner 22:39, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Added some more stuff. Actually the main reason I had been holding off on expanding the article like I did with the the article on the Kuomintang is that I very much dislike the DPP, and would have preferred if someone who was very much pro-DPP started with a draft.

bobbybullder - if you want to convince people, you have to look and sound reasonable. Saying the ***DPP is a bunch of fascists*** just hurts your cause.

Roadrunner 22:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Please give information what oppositionals label the DPP as fascist and/or racist. I would like you to study what fascism is. Start studying Italy and the Mussolini era. You cannot compare the present government in any way which the fascist dictatorships. Electionworld 05:42, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pan-blue labels the DPP as fascist. If you do not understand the politics in Taiwan and cannot read Chinese newspaper, I suggest you pull out of the discussion. Are you trying to say Fascist disappeared after the Mussolini era? The definition of Fascism is in Wikipedia, I strongly suggest you study the history of Fascism first, it is not our job to educate you. Please give us examples why we cannot COMPARE the present government in Taiwan IN ANY WAYS with the Fascist dictatorships? bobbybuilder 19:21, 22 Jun 2005 (TST)

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Can someone elaborate on the different factions? The factions are frequently mentionned without explanation in English news sources based in Taiwan. wayne 23:00, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

"... traditionally been associated with the pan-green coalition...": since that label is a neologism and its other main constituent the Taiwan Solidarity Union is also fairly young, arguably the DPP has not been "traditionally" associated with it. The DPP has, however, been traditionally associated with the Tangwai movement, social movements (anti-nuke), political reform movements, Taiwan independence, etc. A-giau 23:04, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

disambiguation

Please do not move this page without discussing. This is by far the most famous and important DPP. The others are defunct or newly established. --Jiang 10:51, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi again. It is common use at the naming of parties Or other organizations, with the same name, to use a disambig page and add the country name to each of these parties. Indeed, the Taiwanese DPP is a famous and important party, but why should it be preferred to the presidential party of Malawi. So I just wanted to be consequent. Gangulf 10:54, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It is more famous and of consequence than the party in Malawi because of the history involved (the one in Malawi was only formed this month) and its importance in Taiwan itself, which is a global hotspot when compared to Malawi. Just look at how many pages link here versus there... So i dont see a reason not to favor this one--Jiang 10:57, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This is a classic case of "Primary topic" disambiguation: "if one meaning is clearly predominant, it remains...the general title. The top of the article provides a link to the other meanings." And we indeed should discuss before moving major topics, even only to see no comments (meaning no opposition). --Menchi 11:22, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

DPP advocates Taiwan independence ?

DPP adopted a resolution titled 'Resolution on Taiwan's future' in 1999. It said that Taiwan is already an independent state, its present official name is Republic of China. According to this resolution, DPP already renounced Taiwan independence in 1999. Althought its charter still containes a provision for creation of a Republic of Taiwan.