Talk:Classification yard
|
|
The German (Deutsch) version is a LARGE article with description of: geography, layout and technics, and history of hump yards; and with a theoretic diagram of a hump yard.
Today I have added further informations from this site: http://web.archive.org/web/20031230182358/www.railroad.net/forums/messages.asp?TopicID=388 I have the copyrights because I have written that. As English is not my native language, any corrections are welcome. Michael Krumholz, Münster (Westf.), Germany.
| Contents |
Truck / Wagon / Car
Whoever made the last changes, perhaps you would like to know that in British English a wagon is what horses pull, and a truck is what engines pull freight in. Wikipedia uses both British and US English, so if you say "wagon" is OK in US English it's fine. Saintswithin 09:59, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- oh, I do have a bit of a problem with "car" for us Brits, though, as that is only for what I believe people in the USA call "automobiles", and in some parts of this it is a bit confusing as it sounds as though the train has a load of automobiles it is taking somewhere. I shall change this to "wagon" as I guess people will not presume the train is going to the Wild West! Saintswithin 10:04, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Well, the first instance of car int the article is linked to railroad car, which I hope would be sufficient. I would definitely avoid the word "truck" because that's the US term for bogie. If you really have that much problem with car, I find "rolling stock" preferable to "wagon". -- ckape 05:45, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I think User:Saintswithin mischaracterises British usage. 'Wagon' is the general word used to describe rail freight vehicles in the modern era. 'Truck' is largely confined to Thomas the Tank Engine; it would certainly never be used by anyone familiar with the subject of railways. 'Engine', by the way, is also rarely used by those who understand railways to mean 'locomotive', but it is in more common use among the general public. I don't think the usage of 'car' is any more confusing than the use of 'wagon': both are easily understood by residents of the other country, provided the first usage is linked (and possibly the other term given the first time it's used in the article).
- Furthermore, since I believe there are no operational hump yards anymore in the UK and there were never many, this is much more of a US practice article than a British, and thus US spellings and words are appropriate. —Morven 09:46, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)
- Hi, I'm not an expert on British railway vocab, so I bow to anyone's improvements re. the use of "truck"! I'm actually more familiar with the steam train vocab through my dad who works in that field, hence the Thomas the Tank Engine-like language! Actually my original point was just referring to someone who had corrected my use of the word "truck" saying that "trucks go on the road" (i.e. in the sense of what we Brits call lorries). Saintswithin 20:28, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Railways are possibly one of the most awkward fields for terminology US versus UK; they developed largely independently of each other in that way, and many others. No problem! —Morven 20:42, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
Hump vs. Classification
I'm thinking that this article should be re-written as an article on classification yards with a section on hump yards. As it is much of the article isn't actually about hump yards anyway. -- ckape (talk) 05:18, 2005 Jan 18 (UTC)
- Inclined to agree, here. That it talks about non-hump classification yards explicitly suggests that the renaming & textual changes should take place. —Morven 08:11, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)
This is a difficult question because the practice is different in various countries: while in Europe almost nowhere are done classification operations in flat-shunted yards, there are several still in operation outside Europe. Further, as my native language is not English: as far as I know the term "hump yard" is known in UK, Canada, India etc. and also the USA while otherwise in UK etc. usually is also spoken of marshalling yards but in the USA of classification yards (a similar case in my native language German: Rangierbahnhof in Germany and Switzerland, but Verschiebebahnhof in Austria). Thus I have decided to choose "hump yard". Redirection pages already are installed. Michael Krumholz, Münster (Westf.), Germany.
- Well, a hump yard is a type of classification or marshalling yard, but a flat-shunted or flat-switched yard is a type of classification yard, not a type of hump yard. The fact that the terminology is messier for classification yards than for hump yards is a problem, but is not a valid reason to make the article about hump yards instead of classification yards. -- ckape (talk) 20:28, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Improper move
Well, that move was completely improper. Considering the long edit history for this page I'd hate to lose it like that. Is there an automated way to revert so that page can get properly moved via the correct procedure? I notice that had the improper moved not occured any user would've been able to move it, but it looks like we need an admin now. -- ckape (talk) 22:33, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Please observe that I am German and thus not all what I do here is perfect. It was impossible to move the article in the usual way because the article "classification yard" already existed as a redirect page. I have copied the whole discussion also into the moved page "Classification yard". Michael.
Move done properly
I have performed the move properly and restored the history. Now to make sure all the redirects are good ... —Morven 19:02, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
Railroad yard redirects here?
Why is this, since this is only about one type of railroad yard? Or is this the only kind of railyard, and the intro is wrong? --SPUI (talk) 09:39, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- No, classification yards are not at all the only type of rail yards. As far as I (German) know, this is a specific problem in English language in contrast to many other languages which do not know a difference between railroad stations and railroad yards (or sidings), but sometimes otherwise a difference between the whole station (passenger and freight tracks, platforms, signal boxes, public and operational buildings, roundhouses etc.) and the passenger station building only. In German, French, Italian, Spanish, Romanian, Russian etc. the translation of the word "station" means all types of stations (passenger station, freight and classification yards etc.) and when needed the type of station or yard is added to the term "station", e. g.:
English German French ------------------------------------------------------------------ station Bahnhof gare passenger station Personenbahnhof gare de voyageurs freight yard Güterbahnhof gare de marchandises classification yard Rangierbahnhof gare de triage (or triage)
Thus I recommend to create an article "railroad yard" resp. "railway yard" (one article and one redirect) instead of the existing redirects which describes shortly all kinds of railroad yards and contains links to the further articles on each type of railroad yards: thus "freight yard", "passenger coach yard" etc. additionally to this article on classification yards, like it is at least partially done in the articles on railroad stations in non-English wikipedias. Further the new article has to be added and linked to the existing article "train station" also with a reverse link. Otherwise the articles "hump yard" and "marshalling yard" should remain redirects to this article "classification yard" but these terms also should be mentionned in the article "railroad yard" with the related links. But at all I recommend that to be done by a native English speaker for clarity. Michael 07/III/2005.
Loose Shunting
Recently, at Peterborough station in the UK, I saw a snow plough with 'not to be hump or loose shunted' painted on its side. Thanks to this article I now know what hump shunting is. Does anybody know what loose shunting is? Incidentally, why shouldn't a rail snow plough be loose or hump shunted? --AjAldous 13:22, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- This must be an old painting because since ca. 20 years in UK all hump yards are closed. But as I am German, unfortunately I cannot say you what's loose shunting. Michael 18/III/2005.
- In Germany the inscriptions usually say "Nicht abstoßen oder ablaufen lassen". ablaufen means hump shunted, maybe loose shunted means abstoßen: Here, the tracks lead into a flat shunting neck at one or both ends of the yard where the cars are pushed to sort them into the right track. (Flat-shunted yards) --Sascha Claus ✉ 15:49, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)