Talk:Chemical substance
From Academic Kids
Does chemicals include mining?
Should def 2 be moved to "chemical industry" or something like that? The idea with having this sort of an entry is to have a target to link to from descriptions of a nation's economy, such as Gabon/Economy.
"Chemical industry" sounds more English to me, FWIW. -- Marj Tiefert, Tuesday, April 23, 2002
There should be an article named chemical substance or substance (chemistry) for the meaning 1. Andres.
Clarification of terms
The current definition of chemical substance is inadequate- it was originally written as a definition of the word "chemical" and is more appropriate for that.
We need two changes:
1. We need to revise the current definition for chemical substance.
2. We need definitions for BOTH the term chemical substance and the term chemical. The page for "chemical" (quite appropriately) gives a redirect to THIS page.
Regarding #1, I actually thought that an earlier definition of "chemical" (25 June 2004, see history) was a lot closer to the correct meaning of "chemical substance", but maybe others can supply an even better definition. The current definition (with its emphasis on process), with modification, might be an appropriate definition for the word "chemical", which in fact is what it was written for.
Regarding #2, I think we need to face up to the fact that "chemical" and "chemical substance" are NOT interchangable terms. The ambiguity of meaning for the word "chemical" led this page to (thankfully!) be renamed as "chemical substance". Evidence for the difference in meaning:
- In popular usage, the word "chemical" has a connotation of being artificial. Under this definition, chlorine is a chemical but chlorophyll is not. A Google search for "free from chemicals" gave 4750 hits, as opposed to only 45 hits for "free from chemical substances". Examples include baby products (http://www.babyworld.co.uk/information/baby/kids_and_chemicals1.asp), organic food (http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/8-13-2002-24420.asp) and aromatherapy oils (http://www.personalhealthfacts.com/aromatherapy/ravensara.html). While some of us may chuckle at some of the claims made about such products, the fact remains that the word "chemical" is tainted by this.
- In my copy of Encyclopędia Britannica (admittedly abridged to only 2CDs), the term "chemical" only ever seems to be applied to products of the chemical industry. The term chemical substance isn't in fact used in titles, though other terms such as chemical compound are used.
We can either give a common definition for both terms, followed by clarification of the vernacular usage of the term "chemical", or else we need two separate definitions. These same definitions might also be added to Category:Chemical_substances (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Chemical_substances). Would someone care to write some definitions?
Walkerma 18:21, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- First, this is only a disambiguation page and there ought not be articles on "chemical" or "chemical substance", for they could only be dictionary entries, which is not what Wikipedia is about. This page is here only so that someone looking for "chemical" or "chemical substance" will find what they are looking for by following the links to which the page presently points.
- The current definition is precisely the definition for "chemical substance".
- Use in marketing is not a good way of seeing what a term means. The purpose of the industry is to attract consumers, without regard to strict discrete definitions. Ambiguity is encouraged so that consumers may equate or con-fuse two things which are in fact different. Anyhow, use in marketing is only a small part of the use of the word "chemical", which is more an abbreviation of "chemical substance" than an entirely different term. That a marketer prefers the simpler and shorter "chemical" to the longer "chemical substance" does not constitute a difference in meaning. In the Encyclopaedia Britannica (online edition), there is no entry for the word "chemical" or "chemical substance" because, as said above, such entries are not appropriate for an encyclopedia. The use of the word "chemical" in the EB is mostly as an adjective (relating to chemistry, etc.), because as a noun it is a nonspecific word that is inappropriate in an explicatory work.
- There is nothing in a "chemical substance" (or "chemical"), in itself (per se), that distinguishes the substance from other things. Chemical elements and chemical compounds are only in the same category insofar as they are used in chemical processes, but they are not similar substances. What is a "chemical substance" if not a "chemical"? - Centrx 01:55, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
List of chemicals
Where would be a place for a list of chemicals like this: de:Chemikalienliste ? The thing closest to that seems to be Wikipedia:Chemical infoboxes which is surely not intended to be used as list of chemicals. 84.160.221.99 18:41, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- There is such a list, quite an extensive one, at List of compounds. In the English version we separate chemical elements from chemical compounds- so to get to the list like de:Chemikalienliste you need to follow the link to Chemical compound then you see it listed under "see also". I should mention that we are currently considering splitting list of compounds into organic and inorganic compounds, see Talk:List_of_compounds#propose_dividing_list_into_2_web_pages. I am still going through the organics, but I have done the inorganics, see List of inorganic compounds. Before this split started, I also started a page called Inorganic compounds by element, an alternative way of listing them, but I have suspended work on that until I finish doing List of organic compounds. Walkerma 23:01, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Update- this split is almost complete- now a 3-way split- and list of compounds will cease to be a list at the end of May 2005. After this, please see list of biomolecules, list of organic compounds and list of inorganic compounds. Walkerma 17:19, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
