Talk:British House of Commons

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Contents

1 What the name of this page should be 2 How can not voting with the party lead to deselection? 3 Where does the "Father of the House" sit? 4 "Members of a legislature of a non-Commonwealth nation" are ineligible for membership? 5 Apportionment 6 Peers 7 Long table 8 Protocol question 9 What's the Gov't majority?

What the name of this page should be

See Talk:British House of Commons/Page name

How can not voting with the party lead to deselection?

though in some circumstances, an MP may be threatened with deselection if he or she does vote with the party

An MP may be deselected for voting *with* zir party? What are these circumstances? Marnanel 19:14, May 2, 2004 (UTC) I think a "Not" has been left out. john

I've removed the clause as no explanation has been given. It seemed redundant as it was. Might it have been reffering to immediate deselection? Is that the same as expulsion from the party? Mr. Jones 23:56, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Where does the "Father of the House" sit?

The Father of the House traditionally sits on the first seat beyond the gangway (as viewed from the speaker's chair) on the front row.

Is this true? I thought those seats were just taken by senior figures - I don't think Tam Dayell sits there. Heath may have beached himself in that position but I recall him doing so before he became FofH in 1992, and sat there because he was a former PM. Doesn't Skinner sit in that seat on the Labour benches? Timrollpickering 12:17, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

"Members of a legislature of a non-Commonwealth nation" are ineligible for membership?

Is this still the case? I thought it was relaxed in the early 1980s. There was a case when an SDLP member was elected to the Northern Ireland Assembley of the time (which had the same rules on eligibility as Westminster) but was not allowed to take his seat as he was a member of the Irish Senate. I think this led to this law being revoked. Timrollpickering 08:14, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

I think Ireland is excluded from that, just as Irish citizens are entitled to vote just like Commonwealth citizens. A member of a non-commonwealth legislature is still ineligible. http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/GE-cands.htm - Chrism 12:38, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

Apportionment

I'm interested to know 'how' the 600-plus seats in the UK House of Commons are apportioned among the various countries and the shires that make up the United Kingdom. Is there an Act of Parliament that says that Scotland/Wales/etc. shall get 'x' number of seats? Why do Scotland and Northern Ireland have more seats in the Commons than their populations would normally allow? Has there ever been a movement towards "one vote - one value" in the United Kingdom, like in Australia in the 1970s? Could somebody more familiar with the minutiae of British elections and politics please help me on this issue? Regards, --Humehwy 19:38, Jul 2, 2004 (UTC)

Off the top of my head, there was legislation (recently repealed as part of the Scottish Parliament legislation) that required Scotland to have a minimum number of seats. Northern Ireland has similar - it must have between 16 & 18, and usually 17 unless the Boundary Commission see a case for a deviation. The other bits I can recall are that Orkney & Shetland are guarenteed a constituency of their own, and the City of London cannot be partitioned.

Seats are reviewed every decade or so. Generally the Boundary Commission will build them out of local government wards. They're required to aim for near parity, except where local factors or the inconvenience of changes recommend against it. So for example in the latest proposals for Northern Ireland, Fermanagh & South Tyrone has about 6500 more voters than West Tyrone, but rather than transfer wards from Fermanagh (district) to West Tyrone, the proposal is to leave them as they are, tolerating the discrepancy as a price worth paying for seats to be natural (West Tyrone is exactly equal to Omagh and Strabane district councils for eample).

The principle is that an MP represents a community rather than a fixed number of voters, and so community ties and geographic considerations play a large role in determining the distribution of seats. Timrollpickering 23:02, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

To answer your other question about proportional representation. Yes the UK seems to be moving in this direction somewhat. Recent elections to the European Parliament and elections for London's Mayor were conducting under two different forms of PR-like voting systems. However there is no likelihood of the General Election system changing any time soon. Pcb21| Pete 23:30, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Peers

If a member of the House of Commons inherits a peerage, he can no longer sit in the House, correct? In the article, it seems that one needs to be summoned to the Lords in order to be disqualified from sitting in the Commons. Specifically, I was wondering about Viscount Castlereagh - apparently, he served as Leader of the House of Commons until 1822, but he became Marquess of Londonderry (a hereditary peerage) in 1821... ugen64 23:52, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

Well, since 1999, peers can serve in the Commons. Londonderry, however is an Irish peerage, so it did not give Castlereagh the right to sit in the Lords. Similarly, Lord Palmerston spent his entire career in the commons, as his viscountcy was Irish. john k 01:27, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. ugen64 22:01, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

Long table

I do not intend to erase all of User:Jord's hard work, but I found the "fun table" showing the relative sizes of the parties inappropriate. Firstly, the table is, I think, of somewhat doubtful value: it does not show any information not already displayed in the article. Secondly, the table is large and impedes the article. Thirdly, it extends the size of the overall article to nearly a hundred kilobytes: by far too long. Finally, I find the table unnecessary. For these reasons, I regret that I have had to remove the table from the article. -- Emsworth 23:46, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Fair enough. I got the idea from similar tables used for the Houses of the Canadian Parliament, which are far smaller in membership. I like the concept, particularly for the British House, due to the fact that it showed how few seats there are relative to the members therein and how huge the Labour majority actually is. Although that is already clear in the numbers, a picture is worth a thousand words. You're right though, its extreme size is a serious flaw. If there is any desire to have it there, I think if I played with the code it would be possible to make it considerably smaller. I just copied the code used at the Canadian House of Commons and it is rather cumbersome, with a lot of repetition. - Jord 00:03, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Follow-up.. I've decreased its size considerably.. it is at User:Jord/play, let me know if it is worth including. - Jord 00:59, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Protocol question

As an American, I came to this page looking for an answer to a minor question: Outside the Commons, what is the polite form of addressing a Member who holds no government office? I assume if I meet Tony Blair I should say, "Good morning, Mr. Prime Minister", but what do I say if I meet George Galloway? (Before I say, "Thank you!", that is.) JamesMLane 09:27, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Just "Mr Galloway" (or "Sir", if you're feeling really obsequious, I suppose) - they have no special style or form of address outside the Commons Chamber (well, except the post-nominals "MP", of course). The Prime Minister is addressed as "Prime Minister" and all other Government Ministers (including Secretaries of State) as "Minister" (as in the sitcom "Yes, Minister" and its sequel, "Yes, Prime Minister"), except Ministers in the House of Lords who could alternatively be addressed as "Lord <Title>" (or "My Lord", if you're feeling extremely obsequious). This is all when you're talking to them as Ministers in their official capacity, of course - if you met Tony Blair at a party you should really just address him as "Mr Blair" (or "Tony"). Proteus (Talk) 09:46, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Perhaps there's a difference here because Bush, unlike Blair, is the head of state. I think that, even if you meet Bush at a party, the correct form of address is "Mr. President". As for addressing MP's, your information might usefully be included in the article, but I'm not feeling particularly bold at the moment, so I'll leave that decision to editors more familiar with the article. JamesMLane 10:11, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

What's the Gov't majority?

What is the Government's majority? The article currently says 68. I got this figure by adding together everyone in the opposition (including the vacant seat of the MP who died recently). I left out the undeclared seat in South Staffordshire and Sinn Fein/IRA, since they have not taken their seats, and this is what I have came up with:

<math>195 + 61 + 6 + 3 + 9 + 3 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 1 = 286<math>

I then took that number (286) and subtracted by the number of Labour MP's and got:

<math>354 - 286 = 68<math>

However, If we include the the undeclared election South Staffordshire and exclude SF, the majority becomes 67. If the vacant seats are left out completely, the majority is 69.

Which is correct? - Hoshie.Crat 09:47, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I do 646-5 (to remove Sien Fein) = 641 total MPs in the Commons; 641-355 (Labour MPs minus the Speaker) = 286; 355-286 = majority of 69. Therefore, by my calculation, Labour's majority is 69 (assuming South Staffordshire exists and is either "vacant" or "about to be Tory again").

Is it legitimate to leave out SF, though? In theory they could change their minds about taking their seats and become a factor in the equation at any time. As for South Staffs, though undoubtedly the Tory will win it back (presumably he's missing nearly 2 months' pay!) it doesn't count at the moment. -- Arwel 11:30, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

SF don't take up their seats in the Commons and therefore cannot vote on any matters. Therefore they don't exist in the legislature. As South Staffordshire does exist it doesn't matter if it's vacant or not - it's still a seat. Since election night was over I've thought of the majority as being 69 (it was fairly obvious that the previous Speaker was to be re-elected).

I believe that the correct calculation does not leave out SF. Instead, it leaves out the Speaker + 3 Deputy Speakers. -- Emsworth 19:06, 30 May 2005 (UTC)