Talk:Affricate consonant
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How can you tell the difference between Polish /tS/ and /t+S/ clusters?
- I'm a linguist, not a native Pole, but the way I pronounce them trz [t-S] takes longer than cz [tS], and in fact some people analyse trz as [tSS], i.e. affricate [tS] followed by [S]. Another possible distinction (not being Polish, I can't tell for sure which is true) is that Polish [t] is not homorganic with [S], so there's a perceptible shift in articulation as the tongue moves back to [S]; whereas the affricate conventionally written [tS] does not really begin with a [t] segment but with a postalveolar [c+]. Gritchka
- I suppose the distinction is rather whether the stop element has a release on its own or whether the release is simultaneous with the friction which makes it an affricate. I don't know Polish either, but this idea of mine has been accepted (http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0411B&L=conlang&P=15700) by a Ukrainian linguist.
- I think that the separate release is the more marked case. So normally, when writing [ts] we read it as if there were no audible release of the [t] (the same as e.g. [nd], that is normally read as if there were no audible release of the [n]). Unfortunately, the IPA has no way to explicitly mark the audible release, but only a way of marking the lack of it. J. 'mach' wust 01:00, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Are there sound files for these? In the article, what're the f. and vertical line? lysdexia 15:16, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- The f. must be the abbreviation for femininum, that is for the grammatical gender. And the vertical line separates segments. :-)
- That use of the vertical line is not described in the IPA-chart. According to the IPA chart, it's the affricate that should be marked with a tie bar.
- Oh, I wanted just to write a little reply, but now I've made a revision of the whole article... Hope it answers your questions as good as possible without sound files. J. 'mach' wust 23:11, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)