User talk:Clutch
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User_talk:Clutch/archive Previous Comments
Good morning, Jonathan. I hope today's activities will be more congenial all around :-) --Uncle Ed
Greetings, Vive la liberté! Please let me know if you ever feel I'm out of line. A few people have used harsh language against you, which I do not agree with. Cheers. Q
- Thanks Q. I appreciate having the opportunity to work with you in a collegial spirit of mutual respect. Ed Poor did a great job of showing me how effective it is to stay civil, even in the face of great provocation, so I do my best to follow his example. --Clutch
Regarding: "Please defend your reverts..." You might want to try taking a less adversarial approach to working with others, including me. --The Cunctator
Thanks, Clutch. The recent spate of arguments has been getting me down, and your note really cheered me up. As a side note, I don't think it was RK that chased Julie (JHK) away, but it was that same spirit of intolerance and the refusal to listen to other opinions without getting into personal attacks that did. Well, thanks for your note. I will go to work with a smile today. Danny 12:55 Jan 31, 2003 (UTC)
- You are right; RK is not entirely at fault for Julie leaving, nor is he the only one using the brush of anti-Semitism to tar anything he doesn't like. He is the most voluble and prolific, certainly the most obvious in his smears and insults, but there are half a dozen others like him on the Wikipedia. Together, they make editing a living hell for others. I don't think there are any Muslim editors left here; they have all been run off. When I encourage Muslim friends to contribute, they look around, and say "no thanks". --Clutch 13:20 Jan 31, 2003 (UTC)
- My approach to this (atm) is to go for a bottom-up approach. It's hard (for both sides) to balance an article like Israeli terrorism or anti-Semitism or Islam, but it's comparatively easy to balance King David Hotel bombing or blood libel or dhimmi. If you get the lower articles right then when someone says "Islam considers all Jews as dhimmi" then you can say "No, it doesn't. Read the dhimmi article".
- Of course, this is a long-term approach, and in the meantime we're stuck with lots of articles with an NPOV dispute disclaimer... and (sadly) personal attacks. :-( Martin
"Just calm everybody down" -Eric Cartman
Its been a busy day? eh? hang in there, I say; as long as your choosing battles wisely of course. -'Vert
I wish to apoligize for having bad taste. As I would like to add some information on Salim I al Sabah, Kabbar, Abdul Aziz ibn Abdul Rahman ibn Saud, Najd, Faisal I, Political Titles of the Ottoman Empire, Warba, Abdulla II al Sabah, the First Kuwaiti Crisis, Abdullah ibn Hussein, Mashian, Failakah, Auhah, al Khalifa, al Jalahima, al Sabah, Abdul Karim Qasim, Jaber III al Ahmad al Sabah, Muhammad I al Sabah, the Second Kuwaiti Crisis, Zaki Arsuzi, Salah al Din Bitar, Ghazi ibn Faisal, Bakr Sidqi, Abdullah II al Sabah, Ahmad al Sabah, Abdul Ilah, and Percy Cox, as well as (obviously) the Anglo-Iraqi Treaty of October 1922, the Turkish Petroleum Company, the Basra-Baghdad Highway, the Berlin-Baghdad Railroad, and the Abudllah Khor Waterway, Nuri al Said, Abdulla III al Sabah, Aramco, the Kuwait Oil Company, and the Anglo-Kuwaiti Treaty of 1899; I would like to inquire as to what objections you might have to my doing so? Vera Cruz
- My objections are that you don't care about the Wikipedia enough to try and use correct spelling. Your apology itself demonstrated your continuing lack of taste. If you show a sincere desire and effort to develope, or conform to the dictates of good taste in editing, you may consider yourself welcome back. --Clutch 00:24 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)
I spell wrong? Vera Cruz
- "Apoligize"? Also, it is in very bad taste for you to be putting that spammy, horribly linked paragraph on so many peoples user page. A person with good taste would put the paragraph on it's own page, then put a brief message on peoples User pages saying "I apologize for earlier behavior; I would like to edit the [[following]] articles. Do you have any objections?" --Clutch 00:46 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)
Im not allowed to make any new pages. I am sorry I had a spelling error in my apology, I hope you can forgive me. Vera Cruz
- "Im", "I'm". I don't think I see you making an effort, Lir. --Clutch 00:57 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)
I'm sorry that my spelling is not up to your high standards! Vera Cruz
Dont' go Crutch
Hello again, Clutch. I find you rigid, emotional, and unrelenting at times. Your answer about "Im" above is an example.
But the Wikipedia really will miss you. I agree that we risk losing NPOV when we see a huge contingent of people with one POV using verbal attacks against anyone who disagrees. I sense that you are a caring, thoughtful person, wanting everyone to be treated with respect and fairness. This desire will be an asset (and sometimes a burden) wherever you go. Even if you've lost hope in the future of the Wikipedia, don't lose hope in humanity. Most of us have the best of intentions.
Learn from what your experiences here. I've seen RK jump very quickly to personal attacks when he is debating what belongs in an article (Setting aside this attribute, I respect RK as a genuine contributor with good motives). You've usually tried to stay above "ad hominem", which I admire. Hang on to that.
I suspect you might drop in and visit in the future. If so, I look forward to this, and I wouldn't mind hearing from you. It's unfortunate to lose a strong contributor who isn't afraid to express an opinion. Diversity is a huge asset to the Wikipedia. I've seen you stand up for a lot of different groups, even when you had no connection otherwise. I admire this and hope you'll continue, wherever you choose to spend your time.
Goodbye, friend--until next time. Q 15:36 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC)
Jonathan,
Please be nicer to Robert. Try understand his feelings from his perspective.
--Uncle Ed 17:33 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)
- You have used up your karma with me, Ed. You have clearly demonstrated your lack of neutrality. When I see you acting in an even-handed manner, I will reconsider my position. As it is, I have no respect for you and your lack of honesty.
- To be clear, for onlookers not familiar with the situation: Robert has been calling me a VANDAL, and accusing me of writing anti-Semitic rants. Ed stays silent. I on the other hand, stay calm, and mildly say that my edits are valid, and Robert should work within the Wiki system. Ed then comes down and asks ME to be polite.
- A lesson that Ed didn't learn as a child; a lesson that many 10th generation Christians haven't even learnt: turning the other cheek refers to acts of shaming. Robert has gone far beyond that; he is actively attacking my ability to work on the Wikipedia in any sort of collegial spirit, let alone with mutual respect. Mutual respect is two ways. I need some respect coming back my way for all the SHIT I've mildly put up with for ALMOST A FUCKING YEAR.
- With this kind of behavior, it is VERY HARD to be polite to you Ed. I am upset with you. --Clutch 17:41 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)
I see youve been busy... Hang in there, I say. Just remember to pick battles wisely is all; use as sharp a knife as you can - remember what Mel Brooks says; that a sense of humor is the best weapon. -Vert
Clutch, could I ask you to mark reverts as such in the summary - adding the keyword "revert" is ample. Keeping things clear and in the open can only benefit the truth. Thanks. Martin
Clutch, your maximalist approach to Jewish and Israeli related matters is completely unproductive. Finally, after much ado the Zionist Wikipedia community had accepted a stub on judeocentrism; then you came and destroyed it by putting in your rant. In any case, noone will take you seriously here now. However, don't go away; we need some moderation among the Zionist madness at Wikipedia. I suggest you relog to Wikipedia as a new user and take it from there. Also, add only moderate pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist material; if it cannot be easily deleted, it is better to attack questionable pro-Jewish material by bringing it to the attention of fellow semi-neutral Wikipedians rather than by meaningless edit wars you are bound to lose together with your reputation. It is pretty unfair that the Wikipedian Zionists can say Palestinians are all wicked anti-Semites, but criticisms of Israelis are branded as extremist. Since the Zionists are in charge here, smarts not brute force is of essence. Progress can be made even in this hostile and biased environment, but what you are doing at present is futile, it will just be reverted and deleted. /LK
People can only do their best, Clutch. If you give them an all too clear reason... -'Vert
Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
- Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
- Multi-Licensing Guide
- Free the Rambot Articles Project
To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:
- Option 1
- I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:
- {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}
OR
- Option 2
- I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:
- {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}
Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Ram-Man&action=edit§ion=new)| talk)