Talk:The Hobbit

Contents

1 Legendarium? 2 Finnish translation 3 Synopsis 4 Preview of Sequel 5 Influences through Beowulf 6 Merge minor dwarves?

Legendarium?

Legendarium? This word doesn't make the Oxford English Dictionary. Any chance someone who knows what it supposedly means can replace it with a word that actually exists...

I've seen it applied numerous times as a synonymous name for the array of Tolkien's mythology (just look it up in Google to make sure!), and there was no problem with that, both for me and the author. However if you don't like the word, feel free to replace it by whatever you want (e.g. mythology is close). --Uriyan

I love the word "legendarium," but it is not in common usage. Plus Mythology lets us link to that page. -- Cayzle

Legendarium was used by Tolkien himself. And legendarium can be made into a redirect to mythology. Ausir 14:51, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Finnish translation

The Hobbit was considered a children's book when it was first translated into Finnish, with a matching translation of names and an illustration by Tove Jansson. This version tends to cause either mirth or nausea in good amounts among Finnish fans of Tolkien. Would this warrant a mention in the article? -- Kizor

Well, but it WAS written as a children's book :). Ausir 14:51, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Which Tolkien later regretted. — Jor (Talk) 15:13, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

An excellent point, sir. Though the contrast Dragon Mountain (as this version was called) has with the later translation and the rest of Tolkien's works is nonetheless absurd. Kizor

Synopsis

General comment about book synopses: is it really necessary to detail the entire plot? To me, it not only makes the article unwieldy, it opens the door to more error, inconsistencies, etc. User:Alcarillo

Preview of Sequel

Does the "Preview of Sequel" section really belong? The format of the article led me to believe that allusions to the beginning of The Lord of the Rings were featured at the end of the book, but upon reaching it I found no such references. This is misleading; we needn't a whole paragraph "previewing" LotR if no such preview is in The Hobbit itself. - [[User:Furrykef|furrykef (Talk at me)]] 23:04, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I think it can go. Elsewhere the article makes it clear that The Hobbit comes before The Lord of the Rings. If the reader is interested in learning more about LOTR they can read its article(s). --Mrwojo 00:43, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Influences through Beowulf

Wouldn't it be worth mentioning how much Tolkien was influenced by Beowulf when writing the Hobbit? Perhaps even the parallels could be drawn out. If you guys want me to, I can do it... Matthias

The only parallel to Beowulf I can think of is the Dragon, Smaug. And that may just be a coincidence. Dragons are a recurring theme in fantasy tales. Do you have any other examples? EreinionMissing image
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A party of 13 sets out for satisfaction or revenge. In both parties there is a thief, who steals a cup from a dragon by using a secret passage. So far about the story. Singing is very important in the hobbit, poems presented by scoppes were important for Anglo Saxons and two are found in Beowulf. The dwarfish culture also has elements of Anglo Saxon culture, e.g. where Anglo Saxon names are often alliterated if they people are from the same family, the names of the dwarfes rhyme. Loyalty to their leader and kin is also very important to the dwarfes and they have bloodfeuds with the goblins(orcs) of moria. Also both Bilbo and Beowulf are pretty typical tragic heroes, e.g. supernatural ability (ring/strentgh), supernatural help(Gandalf/God,fate), reluctant to accept task(obvious wth Bilbo/Beowulf consults wise men berfore leaving to kill Grendel) and both are seperated(Bilbo in the mountain/Beowulf when he faces Grendels mother), as well as both have honor and follow the heroic code(Bilbo gives smaragds to elves king/obvious with Beowulf). I know that some points are very common in fantasy, but since Tolkien studied Beowulf, I think it had a big influence on him and on The Hobbit and this is worth mentioning as an own point. Sorry for my bad english by the way. Matthias

Interesting...perhaps there is a greater correlation between the two. You've made several interesting points and have given good examples -- many of which seem more than just genre-related coincidence. I think you have something, and until someone reasonably disputes it, I say go ahead and add it to the main article. EreinionMissing image
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23:10, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)

I'm working at a paper for school for this and at the same time trying to recover my account, so I'll guess you'll see something this weekend. Matthias

I'd be interested in reading anything else you could find. EreinionMissing image
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Try google, here something I found: http://faculty.uca.edu/~jona/second/hobbeow.htm http://www.unm.edu/~medinst/resources/weblinks/tolkienweb.htm

Some are rather profound though and I don't know if they have a place in the article except in further reading. Matthias

Merge minor dwarves?

I'd like to merge the articles on the 12 minor dwarf companions to create a collected Dwarves of The Hobbit (or similar) article. Each is a minor character that will never have more than a few sentences or paragraphs written about them. I think that by collecting them in one place it would make it easier to learn more about the minor dwarves. Any objections? --Mrwojo 21:19, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

On second thought, I think it would be misleading to put the Dwarves together like that, since much of the (relatively important) information known about them comes from sources other than The Hobbit. For example, that Glóin is the father of Gimli and is present at the Council of Elrond. --Mrwojo 16:37, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)