Talk:Reconciliation
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Moved from article:
To do: Put in something about: marriage counseling, inter-racial reconciliation, international reconciliation, and last-but-not-least, various religious views about reconciliation between God and man.
-- Jake 12:08, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)
From old article Reconcilation
I deleted the whole entry:
Reconcilation - a change from enmity to friendship. It is mutual, i.e., it is a change wrought in both parties who have been at enmity.
(1.) In Col. 1:21, 22, the word there used refers to a change wrought in the personal character of the sinner who ceases to be an enemy to God by wicked works, and yields up to him his full confidence and love. In 2 Cor. 5:20 the apostle beseeches the Corinthians to be "reconciled to God", i.e., to lay aside their enmity.
(2.) Rom. 5:10 refers not to any change in our disposition toward God, but to God himself, as the party reconciled. Romans 5:11 teaches the same truth. From God we have received "the reconciliation" (R.V.), i.e., he has conferred on us the token of his friendship. So also 2 Cor. 5:18, 19 speaks of a reconciliation originating with God, and consisting in the removal of his merited wrath. In Eph. 2:16 it is clear that the apostle does not refer to the winning back of the sinner in love and loyalty to God, but to the restoration of God's forfeited favour. This is effected by his justice being satisfied, so that he can, in consistency with his own nature, be favourable toward sinners. Justice demands the punishment of sinners. The death of Christ satisfies justice, and so reconciles God to us. This reconciliation makes God our friend, and enables him to pardon and save us. (See Sin.)
From Easton's Bible Dictionary (1897)
Mainly because it's straight biblical commentary, and this is an encyclopedia, not a Bible commentary. If it's to stay, it needs to be attributed to a theologian or school of thought; perhaps it could be attributed to Easton, but we don't have a biography of him online, so I'm not sure how helpful that would be. In any case, I don't have time to carefully neutralize it just now.
I'll also admit that I happen to strongly disagree with the sentiments expressed, as I believe most of historic Christianity and Judaism would agree that God does not change. This was a crucial point established at the Council of Chalcedon and by many of the church fathers individually. The introductory sentence and entire second point appear to say that God does change, that God does not love everyone, and that there is something greater than God called Justice that demands that God punish sinners. This contradicts Anselm's notion that God is "that greater than which nothing can be conceived".
Enough ranting. Suggestions for improvement, anyone? Wesley
- Matthew George Easton (1823-1894) Scottish Presbyterian. Since he came from a mainstream denomination, it is unlikely he held wildly unorthodox views. "His justice" doesn't necessarily means something greater than him. And I'm not clear on why you think it says that God changes. But I agree it makes a lousy encyclopedia article. At least it would have to mention the non-theological uses of the term and perhaps in reference to sociology and psychology, etc. might make an article not a definition. Maybe. --rmhermen
- I gotta agree with Wesley on this one. The Easton text is beautiful, refreshing -- but it's not an encyclopedia article on reconciliation. It is rather one man's view of the Christian doctrine of reconciliation. If we are to include it, the boilerplate text of the other Easton articles don't work in this case. Someone (I pick Wesley!) should write a general article on the topic, perhaps even including inter-racial (or political) aspects. --Ed Poor
Note also spelling difference between Reconcilation and [Reconciliation]] (latter version has extra "i").
To answer your question, rmhermen: From the first line: "It is mutual, i.e., it is a change wrought in both parties who have been at enmity." This suggests that reconciliation is a change wrought in God as well as in the human. "Justice demands the punishment of sinners." Does Justice demand that God punish sinners, that Satan punish sinners, or that sinners punish themselves? Justice is something that has to be satisfied, that forced Christ to die on the cross. All this suggests that it is something greater than God. It's possible that I'm reading the wrong ideas into his statements though, and English usage may have changed a bit in the last 100+ years. As for being Scottish Presbyterian, I suppose this might be reflective of Protestant Calvinist theology, or at most of Augustinianism. I really can't say. It is certainly foreign to the Eastern Orthodox Church, which constantly prays to God as "the only lover of mankind."
Ed, I appreciate your vote of confidence, but I don't really have the energy to do this right. I just know that the Easton text by itself strikes me as very wrong in this case. I like both your and rmhermen's suggestions for general directions this could go, and I'm glad you caught the typo. Can't believe I missed it! Wesley
This article may need Template:Tl, but is it still a Template:Tl? I think it ought to have the 'stub' tag removed. --Dcfleck 20:34, 2005 May 1 (UTC)
- Agreed. Actually, I think the article may need Template:Tl. Especially considering the Todo item on top of the talk page. Rl 21:21, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
- Template:Tl removed. --Dcfleck 00:16, 2005 May 2 (UTC)