Talk:Japanese calendar
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Lots of redundancy
There are several redundant lists and tables maintained for Japanese holidays and festivals. There is a list at the Japanese festivals article as well as a table at the Holidays of Japan article. This article (Japanese calendar) contains a list and a table for Japanese national holidays, and a list for Japanese festivals. Other redundancies seem to exist in this article. —Tokek 17:01, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
About the merger idea
Usually for each country, there is a "(Country)" article with a "History" sub-section, while there's also a separate "History of (Country)" article that is usually linked from the country article with a "See also... for more details" link, so maybe some level of redundancy is OK and good on Wikipedia as long as it's maintained properly. The Holidays of Japan article has a benefit of being concise without mentioning the other miscellaneous aspects of the Japanese calendar as it is done in this article (Japanese calendar). The Holidays of Japan is listed under the w:Category:Public holidays by country category. —Tokek 09:28, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
- I am not against having duplicate information. For example, each month article like January has the name of the month in Japanese. However, currently both Holidays of Japan and Japanese festivals are fairly short, and they have overlaps. We can also add w:Category:Public holidays by country to this article, when the articles are merged. -- Taku 21:35, May 20, 2005 (UTC)
- It is probably best to keep the list on the Japanese calendar page to only the "official" holidays, and a few of the large, nationally celebrated festivals, such as Tanabata. Then Holidays of Japan should be merged into Japanese festivals for a much large list that would include regional festivals, religious festivals, etc. The Japanese festivals page would, of course, include all the holidays mentioned on the Japanese calendar page. BlankVerse ∅ 04:51, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
I am not sure why. Clearly, National Foundation Day is not a festival, for one. I don't think Tanabata is a festival; it's more like an important date like Easter. Some people do celebrate that day, but some others don't. The fault is that Japanese festivals, despites its name, currently don't talk about festivals in Japan per se and more like annual events, which I think should be in this article. -- Taku 05:42, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
- Well I am probably biased because I was recently contributing to the Holidays of Japan page, but if you think merger is a good idea, then maybe it is. I just cleaned up a bit on the Holidays section of the Japanese calendar article. —Tokek 06:52, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
Update: I've incorporated essential content from Holidays of Japan to this article and think that page is ready to be turned into a redirect page. What do others think? —Tokek 23:36, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I'm in favor of a Holidays redirect to this calendar page. Photojpn.org 09:09, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
As I said on the festivals page, I don't think it's a good idea to merge the festivals page with this calendar page. A lot can be written about Japanese festivals such as types of matsuri (mikoshi, parades, ceremonies, etc.), the history, and religious roots. You can write books about Japanese festivals. However, if you only want to include festival dates in Japanese calendar, no problem. But you have to decide which festivals to include. I would put priority on festivals/observances (separate from national holidays) which are celebrated on the national level such as hatsumode, hanami, obon, setsubun, shichigosan, and omisoka. Then perhaps includes dates of the most famous festivals like Kyoto Gion Matsuri, Aomori Nebuta, Fukuoka Dontaku, Sapporo Snow Festival, etc.
Dates I'd like to see on this page:
- National holidays (done)
- Popular national observances (which are not national holidays) like hatsumode, hanami, obon, etc.
- Dates of major festivals (also explain that some festivals still abide by the lunar calendar)
- Foreign holidays popularly celebrated in Japan (Chinese New Year's, Valentine's, Christmas, etc.) but not observed officially
- Academic year dates
- Vacation periods (New Year's/winter, GW, obon, etc.)
- Other significant dates (April 1, etc.)
This page also needs a History section explaining the history of the Japanese calendar (ie, lunar calendar) before the Gregorian calendar was adopted. Photojpn.org 09:09, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I am not against to have a separate dedicated to the way how Japanese people celebrate maturi and such. And I cannot think of who would. There are a lot that can be said about this; like clothes, music, food etc, etc. And those are clearly outside the scope of this article. I suggested a merger because there is (was?) a overlap. I guess the problem is that it is not clear (at least to me) the scope of Japanese festivals. Obviously, merely listing holidays and seasonal days creates the same page as this. -- Taku 09:28, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)
Rokuyō
- I added the rokuyō since they're still a fairly important part of the Japanese calendar (and are mentioned on the Japanese-language version of the page). They probably deserve their own article if someone has time.
- Removed the line about shiwasu being the only month name still in use, wasn't sure what that was supposed to mean ... none of these 12 months are in "official" use, but most Japanese people could probably name most of the months anyway. I'm not sure why shiwasu was singled out.
CES 06:12, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Sekki and Zassetsu table
Currently the 24 Sekki and Zassetsu days are combined into one table, sorted chronologically. Should this list be split into two tables (Sekki table and Zassetsu table), remain merged, or should MORE days be merged into a single table (e.g. Sekki + Zassetsu + Sekku + festivals + National holidays + etc. etc.)? What do people think? — Tokek 19:22, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Tables are a nuisance to edit. Do they add any value to the article, or could the article be just as good without them? Fg2 20:59, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)
- Whether it be tables or lists, I was wondering about which groups of dates should be combined or separated. If Sekki and Zassetsu days were separated into two lists/tables, the information can be presented in a more minimal fashion because I wouldn't have to specify the type (Sekki or Zassetsu) for each entry. If there were benefits to combining the groups however, we should see if we should merge all types of dates.
- Some benefits of tables are that it can reduce clutter, improve legibility, and display the same amount of information (date, kanji, romaji, type, comment) without having to take up as much vertical space as lists would. Plus Wikipedia tables are easy to maintain once it is set up -- often times cells are simply separated by " || ". For reference: WP:HTUT#When_tables_are_appropriate.
- —Tokek 23:24, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- What is your preference? I myself like to split the table. It looks cluttered now, and I don't see much need to have two kinds of date are put in one list. If no one opposes, I can go ahead spliting. -- Taku 23:34, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)
- I only kept it merged because that's how it was before I made edits, but I don't mind if the table/list were to be split. I also have split versions already on my PC, so I can use that. I have both a split table version and a split list version. —Tokek 04:40, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Since no one seems to oppose, I think you can go ahead spliting. -- Taku 22:50, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
- I went ahead and split it. W.r.t. tables versus lists, I see it as a tradeoff (one side has benefits the other side doesn't and vice versa) and I don't have a strong position on it. —Tokek 00:52, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Misc.
24 Sekki is decided according to solar movement, and not fixed to day. (unsigned)
- The current version notes this.—Tokek 19:22, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This entry lists the names of the months and holidays, but doesn't talk about the historical Japanese calendars that were adopted from the Chinese calendar and used before the Gregorian calendar was adopted in 1872.
Here is a good website that explains the history of the Japanese calendar:
Shiwasu
I question the explanation given for this month (though it is a good one), since 師 doesn't mean "priest." It can mean "master" or "expert" as well as "teacher," but I was taught that this specifically referred to teachers. Anyone? Exploding Boy 17:46, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
- Someone else [1] (http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/gakusha/13011) has already done some internet research on this. S/he lists about a dozen etymology theories found, and favors one of them: because "shihasu" appears in Man'yoshu, spelled as 十二月 with furigana シハス, 師走 must be a later ateji invention. S/he also points out how other theoreis have elements that sound fishy or have inherent contradictions. —Tokek 20:08, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- That's certainly possible, but it doesn't really answer my question. 師 still doesn't mean priest. Exploding Boy 20:14, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Exploding Boy 00:51, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)