Talk:ISO 3166-2

Copyright

I just asked the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States if it is copyright-okay for them to add ISO 3166-2 codes in the CIA World Factbook. My message sent to https://comm.cia.gov/cgi/comment_form.cgi said:

"As The World Factbook in the public domain contains ISO 3166-1 and ISO 4217 codes from the international standards copyrighted by the International Organization for Standardization, I would like to ask if it is copyright-okay for you to add ISO 3166-2 codes for administrative divisions, possibly cross-referenced with place codes from FIPS PUB 10-4.

I am asking it because I wonder if code elements from ISO 3166-1, ISO 3166-2, and ISO 4217 alone can be copyrighted."

Limited staff in the CIA may delay a reply, so please do not ask the same there. I hope that a reply will arrive. Stay tuned.

... Jusjih 07:06 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I have the same feeling with regard to the legitimacy to post ISO 3166-2 codes in bulk. Many codes are based on National Standards, but I don't know their exact status of copyright. As I have found, http://geotags.com/iso3166/ says that it reproduces ISO 3166-2 codes with permission. I don't know how its editor got that and if we should also do the same. I hope that someone can answer well. ... Jusjih 09:12 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)

ISO 3166-2 codes have to be removed.

see: Talk:International_Organization_for_Standardization http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/xsite/copyright.html

exceptions maybe: codes that are widely used in the countries and are free of copyright. e.g. state codes in USA are free (?)... Tobias Conradi 22:02 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)

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I don't understand the "one-letter" thing. Can't do much with one letter, huh? And there are no one-letter names in this list?

1 letter

EC, TM, VE

1 and 2 letter

ES, MY, SE

e.g. SE-BD Norrbottens län, SE-C Uppsala län

1 letter for regions, 2 letter for capital

KG

1 letter for capital, 2 letter for departments

RO

jaknouse 02:55 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

1 letter means that subdivisions have one letter. I looked in ISO (http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma/03updates-on-iso-3166/index.html) and at Unece (http://www.unece.org/cefact/locode/service/sublocat.htm) to find the subdivisions. User:Tobias Conradi

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Moved from User talk:Tim Starling

Out of curiosity, why are you removing all those ISO posts? Kingturtle 06:21 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

Because they're ugly. They make me want to throw up. Save them for some obscure list where I don't have to look at them.-- Tim Starling 06:24 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

And the NSW in New South Wales (NSW) is nice? Are You the master of the world that we have to care whether YOU find them ugly? Maybe we can put them to another place. Table is not very usefull.

Yes, NSW is nice. No, I'm not the master of the world, I'm the master of my edit button. My sense of style is just as important as anyone else's, but I intend to boldly revert ugly additions, especially ones made to Australia-related pages. And please log on to protect your anonymity, Deutsche Telekom user. -- Tim

I agree. Please do not delete them. Just find a better place for them. Kingturtle 06:32 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

I didn't delete them. They're still on the web if you want to find them. We can find a better place for them, but not in the intro paragraph of an article like New South Wales or, even worse, Hidalgo. -- Tim Starling 06:37 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

The stubs definitely have to go. Kingturtle 06:39 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

I agree. But that the Australian codes are now on a page that is called list of capitals of subnational entities, is not a good solution. I don't know where to put lists, but nevertheles if a page for a entity exist, it should contain the ISO 3166-2 code, like it is on country pages with the TLDs/ISO 3166-1 codes.

I'm listing the stubs on VFD. It will take a few more minutes to find them all... -- Tim Starling 06:51 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

it were only mexican. i would like to help, i found: Mexican Federal District, Durango_State,Sinaloa, Nuevo Leon,Mexico_State,Hidalgo,Tamaulipas

Thanks, but I already found them. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion. Let's continue this discussion on Talk:ISO 3166-2.

I don't know where you want to put the ISO 3166-2 codes for subnational entities without a summary table. You could create tables for those states and add the code -- that would probably be the best solution. Or you could create a set of pages listing the codes for all states—almanac-style. Use your imagination. By the way, I'm not the boss of Wikipedia. You wouldn't be breaking the rules as such by simply adding all the codes back in, the way you originally put them. An edit war would probably result, and we'd probably reach a compromise. Don't be intimidated -- you have as much right to your opinion as I do. -- Tim Starling 07:31 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

On pages for German, Canadian or US States there are tables were it is easy to put the code in the page. I.e. at Bavaria one can find the code for Bavaria, like on Australian Dollar one can find the ISO 4217 currency code AUD. Why not finding the ISO subdivision code on a page for New South Wales?

The Australian states don't have tables because we haven't got around to doing it yet. You can do it if you want. The key difference between Australian dollar and New South Wales is that currency codes are more important than ISO 3166-2 codes. I have never seen the ISO 3166-2 codes for Australian states before now, but I have seen "Australian dollar" abbreviated to AUD many times. ISO 3166-2 codes are far less important than the postal abbreviations NSW, VIC, ACT, etc. This is why I can't accept putting the ISO 3166-2 codes in the first paragraph, because only the most important facts go there. As a compromise, I might accept having the ISO codes at the end of the article. However, I would prefer to see the ISO codes hidden by putting them in a table or list of other data. -- Tim Starling 09:33 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

I see Your point. One advantage of having it directly in each state page, is that one can have a look what links to ISO 3166-2 and find all ISO 3166-2 related pages. Thanks for offering the compromise. Good that I added the info, wasn't it? Now You learnt that ISO 3166-2 for your country exists ;-). Well, the first place in the first paragraph was not right. Will You add the information? Maybe it is better if You do it. -- Tobias Conradi 15:18 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, I'll add it. You've inspired me to make some US-style tables for the Australian states. I should have them finished within a day or two. -- Tim Starling 23:46 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

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According to http://www.mindspring.com/~gwil/umx.html: ``International standard ISO 3166-2 was published on December 15, 1998. It superseded ISO/DIS 3166-2 (draft international standard). For Mexico, the draft standard showed 31 states and one federal district. The final standard shows the same divisions and the same codes, except for the federal district. The code for Distrito Federal has been changed from D.F to DIF.

I have revised this page accordingly. 192.203.205.129 06:33 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

Log on to protect your privacy, IDA employee! -- Tim Starling 08:10 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

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Regarding the ISO 3166-2 codes for xyz pages, can we agree on putting references to ISO, ISO 3166-1, ISO 3166-2, and the country in the top? Then surfers can easiliy go where they want to. Like it is done on ISO 3166-2 codes for Japan page.Tobias Conradi 06:49 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

Be bold in updating pages. It's fine by me but you don't need my permission, or anyone else's. Just do it and see if anyone complains.

It was ment a little as suggestion. ;-) So to save time, if You are already on it, I do not have to go through later. But well, maybe this does not matter much. Tobias Conradi 07:17 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

Maybe the IDA guy will do it for us. :) -- Tim Starling 08:10 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

Can we please have a listing of all the ISO 3166-2 codes for xxx pages somewhere? I see they are already linked from ISO 3166-2, but it's currently a bit hard to find the subpage if you don't already know the ISO 3166-1 code. Another possible issue: I think we need to reformat the code listings somewhat. They look too much like they were copied straight from LOCODE -- there may be copyright issues. -- Tim Starling 07:08 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

You are absolutly right, it is hard to find the subpages. I will think about a solution. Tobias Conradi 07:17 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

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ISO 3166-2 interface to subdivision information at wikipedia.org

I created redirects to the countries of the form ISO 3166-1:XX to enable outsiders to link via an easy interface to country infos at wikipedia.org. Is it a good idea to do this also for subdivsions, in the form ISO 3166-2:CH-ZH (for Canton Zürich)? ISO 3166-2:CH will still provide a list of codes.

I dont know whether the redirects are a good idea, because this could end up with really a lot of them and the 3166-2 codes may change faster than 3166-1. Maybe a database supported solution would be better. Any suggestions? Maybe we should just go for it... Tobias Conradi 00:33 May 9, 2003 (UTC)

I think the redirects you just created were named ISO 3166-2:XX rather than ISO 3166-1:XX. Creating redirects such as ISO 3166-2:CH-ZH → Zürich wouldn't hurt, but like you say there's a lot of them. Do you know how many there are, exactly? Are we talking thousands? For large-scale, automated database entry you could try to convince someone to write a client-side bot or a server-side script. -- Tim Starling 02:46 May 9, 2003 (UTC)

ISO 3166-1:AU → Australia; ISO 3166-2:AU → ISO 3166-2 codes for Australia; ISO 3166-2:AU-NS maybe → New South Wales

Yes, I think we talk about thousands. client-side bot will do what I can do with hands. But what You mean with server-side script? Will it have the same result (insertion of redirects that can be edited)? Or should we ask for something special. Like the 'Talk' in wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:xyz is something special. But this links should also work in the offline (CD/DVD) versions, so we maybe need normal redirects. Tobias Conradi 03:44 May 9, 2003 (UTC)

I meant that the server-side script should just make normal redirects. The advantage of doing it that way is that it puts far less stress on the server, and the changes can be hidden from Special:Recentchanges. -- Tim Starling 00:02 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)