Talk:Heraldry
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Lozenge
I see the lozenge described as "usually a square standing on one of its corners." This isn't entirely corect, is it, as a lozenge rarely has four right angles? I believe the geometric term is a rhombus. Eixo 03:30, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Tinctures
Argent, Gules, etc -- can these be any more than stubs? -- Tarquin 18:10 Oct 15, 2002 (UTC)
- I don't think so. Move to redirect. -Martin
- They really could, but this would be getting into an incredibly specialised level of detail (for example: 1)argent: Fox-Davies in his book goes on and on as to whether there is a separate colour white, the use of aluminium versus silver when it is emblazoned and so forth; 2)gules: shades, such as the once-fashionable "chocolate" of the arms of Newfoundland (http://www.cardcrom.ca/nfld.html), &c.). So the redirects may be best, at least until there is someone who wants to bite into this excruciating task. --Daniel C. Boyer 19:21, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Skin Tinctured
The description of carnation could with some justification be called racist, but there may be some question remaining as to the edit to describe it as "Caucasian," as this POV postdates the time of the "description," and is outside its place, considerably; that is, at the time of the development of this tincture it would have been described as "human flesh" and the racist exclusion of non-European shades of skin would not have been considered. I am not convinced this has been dealt with adequate subtlety. --Daniel C. Boyer 20:05, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- Well, whether or not they thought in terms of "human skin" or "Caucasian skin," the latter is in fact what it is, not the former. They never used carnation to mean brown. We can say "Carnation was used to mean the colour of Caucasian skin," just as we would say "Savage was used to blazon the figure of a North American aboriginal." - Montréalais 18:17, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- Good -- this is what I was getting at. --Daniel C. Boyer 19:00, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Is Thatcher a Lady ?
Emsworth: You've changed my Baroness Thatcher to your Lady Thatcher. I know a life peeress can choose which style to be called by, but is there any list of life peeresses showing their choice? As an aside, there is only one "Lady" in the House of Peers, Saltoun of Abernethy, Chief of the Clan Fraser. But is she a Lady of Parliament or a Lord of Parliament? garryq 22:41, 14 May 2004 (UTC)
Thatcher joint achievement
I thought husbands' arms were always placed on the dexter side. Donald, 00.25, 14 Jun 2004 (BST)
- In the case of a joint acheivement you are correct, but I have simply placed the two images side by side for comparison. The arms of the baronets Thatcher have no supporters, unlike Lady Thatcher. Thus a truly joint achievement is subject to further considerations. --garryq 11:17, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- [1] (http://www.theheraldrysociety.com/resources/faq8.htm) is probably the best article on the Kings of Arms' ruling on how women should now display arms. --garryq 10:58, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Helm error?
The bit about "helm" says "it rests on either the shield or the helm.", which doesn't make sense to me (how can something rest on itself?) -- is this a mistake? pm215 00:14, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
D D Ruddy - The second chief
I deleted the reference to the arms of Ruddy as an illustration of the second chief because
- The arms shown on site conform neither to blazon as given on site nor to the blazon and illustration given in the members' roll of the Royal Society of Heraldry of Canada.
- The apparent second chief seems to be a self-assumed pretence relating to one of the many resurrections of the self-styled Order of St Lazarus.
- Links on own web page obsolete.
I have tried to contact the armiger, but have had no reply. --garryq 10:15, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Miscellaneous
Announcements
Over the next little while, I'm going to be breaking this article up into pieces to provide a more accurate treatment of each one. - Montréalais 18:17, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Suggestions for improvement
Should mention lozenge as means of displaying arms of unmarried woman. --Daniel C. Boyer 20:29, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Where should the subject of abatements and the associated charges be dealt with? --Daniel C. Boyer 14:50, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The "Blazons" section would be much better if it actually had pictures showing the blazons being described. Nandesuka 11:32, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Move some info to Charges?
A lot of the info now here has been duplicated in the quite extensively developed Charge (heraldry) article. Should it be removed from here where it can be so merged? --Daniel C. Boyer 18:14, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Bias
This article is heavily biased toward British heraldry, or rather portrays specifically British rules as universal. For instance, in Europe except for Great Britain, women bear their arms on an oval and not a lozange. An other example is "Peers of the realm, senior members of British orders of knighthood and some corporate bodies have supporters on either side of the shield." While that may be the case in Great Britain, in the rest of the world anyone can choose to have supporters on the sides of the shield.
Also, the article neglects to mention what might be the most important addition to the shield, which is the crown, which indicates the bearer's nobiliary rank (Baron/Earl/Marquess/Duke/Prince...), but also ecclesiastic rank (bishop/archbishop) ; cities also have a specific towered crown, etc. While supporters and other additions are not shown with the shield for a simple display (on a ring or seal), the crown always is.
LeoDV 16:58, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Attributed arms
Where in this or another article should this phenomenon be mentioned? --Daniel C. Boyer 19:25, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
UNBC's arms
I'm not sure why the University of Northern BC's arms are specifically footnoted as an example of arms which could only be drawn in one particular way. Is this because the salmon are drwan in a Haida style, rather than the usual style used in European heraldry or in a realistic style? If so, perhaps the note should be clarified. Dan MacQueen 04:25, 2005 Feb 8 (UTC)
I second that - it's puzzled me too. Berek 12:33, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)