Talk:Half-elven
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How could Dior be half-elven, since Luthien had chosen to be mortal and was therefore no longer an Elf? Is there a Tolkien source for this? Stan 01:13, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)
- Lúthien had chosen to be counted among Men after death — she had not become a human, she had only chosen the fate of humans. And keep in mind Lúthien was herself half Maia, so Dior was a quarter Maia, a quarter Elven, and half Man. — Jor 11:02, Jan 6, 2004 (UTC)
1.) Concerning Dior's status, the judgement of the Valar concerning the half-even had not been handed down at the time of his birth, so it's difficult to judge clearly. He was born to a mortal father and an elven mother, but this was after they had been re-embodied as mortals. Given that his father, Beren, was allowed to return to life, and his mother, Luthien, allowed to die as a mortal, it seems that his case is surrounded by extenuating circumstances and pointless to attempt to decipher. In any case, his early and violent death renders the debate rather moot.
All that can be safely said is that his mortal blood was important enough that his daughter through a full-blooded Sindarin elf, Elwing, was given the choice of a mortal death by the Valar (which she declined).
2.) I take issue with "Eärendil's fate was special however: he was not allowed to stay in Valinor, but had to sail the heavens" - Eärendil's heavenly excursions were out of his love for sailing, and inability to return to Middle-Earth. Nothing was required of him in this regard.
3.) "The heirs of Elrond, including Arwen Undómiel, also had the free choice of kindred, therefore Arwen could choose to be counted amongst the Edain even though her father had chosen to be counted as Elven." - this statement is plausible, but the books strongly imply that her decision was more like Luthien's (to whom she is frequently compared), not the Half-elven. Unlike the line of Elros, who died in the manner of men, Arwen did not exactly suffer a mortal fate - she left Minas Tirith and wandered the woods as a widow until she faded from memory. Her mortal fate is left ambiguous.
-Peter