Talk:Glorfindel
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Where does the curious "predecessor to the Istari" idea come from? I don't see it on the page that I reference. Stan 05:31 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- Never mind, I found it in vol. 12. Should finish reading HoME before shooting my mouth off, even though that's not the "Wiki way". :-) Stan 05:56 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Indeed. I said I thought it was in Peoples of Middle Earth in the changes summary, you'll note. But seeing as you figured it out yourself before I responded, it's no matter. john 06:41 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- I phrased my prev comment poorly - your hint in the changes summary was crucial to me finding the extended discussion. Thank you! Stan 12:32 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)
more info
I have added a discussion of the two Glorfindels which seeks a deeper understanding of the situation to the brief summary already given
I don't understand why Tolkien thought it was such a big deal that the Glorfindel in The Lord of the Rings has the same name as a First Age Elf. There are other characters who have named reused, such as Denethor and Húrin. Eric119 03:02, Mar 28, 2004 (UTC)
- But Elves are immortal (within Arda). Glorfindel was a major character from the Gondolin legend, and therefore would have been very well known to later Elves—some of whom would have known him personally, or had known those who would have known him. Elrond, as son of Ëarendil, grew up in a community of refugees who for a large part owed their lives to Glorfindel, and since he was a hero of the Noldor even Maglor (Elrond's foster-father) would probably have told the tales. Certainly the tales were recounted during the Second Age in Lindon. Since the Gondolin Glorfindel would be alife in Valinor, no other Eldar would be named such: Elves apparently did not re-use names outside of their own family. Men have no such restriction, and many Gondorians were named after heroes from the First Age — Men and Elves. Glorfindel as a name was inherently tied in with the character, and therefore there could never have been two with the same name, and Tolkien would not have changed the name if he had ever been able to publish the Silmarillion. — Jor (Talk) 03:09, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- And yes, I am aware of Legolas Greenleaf in the Gondolin legend and Rúmil the march-warden of Lórien. In the case of Legolas it can't be doubted that he would have been removed from the eventual final Gondolin story (he would have had to be renamed: his name is not Sindarin), and Rúmil as a name had never occured in published writing, and the character Rúmil the sage was being supplanted with Pengolodh. Had Tolkien published the Silmarillion, this Rúmil would probably have been renamed as well. — Jor (Talk) 03:13, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Rúmil the inventor of writing appears in Appendix F to The Lord of the Rings. Invention of writing is all that is ever said of Rúmil after the Unfinished Tales stage and certainly Pengolod, an Elf born after the return of the Noldor, would not be given that role. Tolkien probably quite understandabily misremembered that case. But the Lothlórien Rúmil's name would have been Sindarin or even Nandorinish in origin and so have been etymologically different from the name of the sage Rúmil. jallan 03:43, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)