Talk:Emperor of Japan
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VOTE: Put your name at once
- {name}
- +no title
- -conflicts with place names
- {name}, Emperor of Japan - Taku
- +Rather natural in English language
- Emperor {name} of Japan - Nanshu, Flunkie FearÉIREANN
- +/- similar to western monarchy
- +Status quo (no need for modifying existing links)
- -Wicked notation in English language
- {name} Emperor
- Emperor {name}
I have set up voting since to me the issue is more like preference of each one. I put any variant that there seem people support. I hope we can finally end this debate. -- Taku 18:28 30 May 2003 (UTC)
I have cast my vote. lol FearÉIREANN 20:48 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)
When will the poll be closed? --Nanshu 23:44 15 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I think we have spent enugh amout of time for voting and it seems the result will change unlikely if we waited further more. Since I am the one who moved articles, I will revert them in days. -- Taku 03:55 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Hello, everyone. I applogize for leaving this vote for months. As decided on the votes, I will revert all of the title of emperors of Japan articles into "Emperor {name} of Japan". I will start reverting in 24 hours now. Please let me know if there is a problem. Cheers! -- Taku 02:32, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I haven't been following the discussion from the beginning. After I read several comments above, how about (name) tennou of Japan? kt2 04:47 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
The bit about using personal names is incoherent as it stands. First it says that East Asians generally think it's discourteous; then it says that (except for the emperor) the custom really no longer exists. Well, which is it? Do they still think it's discourteous or not? --Tb 23:25 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)
To explain why it is 'discourteous' I have to explain a belief of mythology called 'Kotodama' (Kami(Soul/spirit/god/demon) of words) in Japan which is not yet in Wikipedia. Simply put, the word itself is believed to have power to cause event. 'Throwing around a name' would increase this chance of 'corriding with wrong word' and thus the use of name was minimized, to the point of calling by generalized name (in this case 'Tennou') or the name that meant something unimportant (Toyotomi Hideyori was in infancy called Sutemaru, a trashed son). Remember how YWHW, the name of God, remained unused to the point where no one knew how it could be read; this belief used to exist everywhere.
Answer to your question is, yes, at least to Japanese. Even today, when facing a important test like the entrance exam, words or sentence that contain the sound of 'otiru(to fall)', 'suberu(to slip)', 'kiru(to be cut)' are avoided even in the casual conversation. On the other hand 'katu(to win)' is used as a blessing and food like 'Tonkatu(breaded and fried pork)' or 'Katiguri(baked chestnut)' are sold in stores that reguraly don't have them. When calling someone by family name, words like 'san(roughly translate to Mr. or Ms.), 'chan(to someone young or feministic)', 'kun(to someone young or same age)' to lessen the 'trouble' it might cause by making 'evil spirits' harder to target. When someone Japanese let you call by his personal name, he/she is letting you know that you are trusted and calling someone Japanese not familiar to you by personal name will elicit a questioning look. Sorry about the reply being long one.
Revth 06:49, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)
A question: Why is there that doubt about whether the Emperor is head of State or not? if he is not head of state, what is he? User:Marco Neves
- The Japanese constitution says Emperor of Japan is a symbol that represents Japanese people or something. The old constitution has a specific mention that the Emperor is a head of state but the new one doesn't.
- I just added a bit of further explanation on the word 'tennnou' that might help you. One of the problem is, 'tennnou' could be a figure of spiritual belief even with the declaration by himself that he is, a human. Check Shintoism for more explanation to that. This creates a really big constitutional mess because the Japanese constitution, like most modern ones, states the separation of any specific religion from the nation. It simply wouldn't do for the head of State to be unconditionally tied to a certain religion. So the answer of that has to be both yes and no. Yes, because he performs the function of State and no, because he could be a religious symbol. Trying to make a constituion that are not at odd with nearly two-thousand year history, practices, and tradition is never a simple task.
- Revth 16:03, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)
In my understandings the Japanese goverment and the Loyal Household try to solve this dilemma to the distinction of public/private life of Tenno. It is a fact some Shito celemony the Emperor hold but as a family event in the court. He doesn't attend to Shintoist meeting at least public. For example, Japanese prime ministers go to Yasukuni Shrine but Tenno has never visited it. Many Shintoists seem Tenno is the spiritual top of their hierarchy but there is no official statement (even a negative one) from the Loyal Household. Those matters are highly complicated and sensitive. KIZU 10:30, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Interesting that he is still called "Emperor", even though Japan no longer has an Empire. He's really a king. The word "Tenno" certainly doesn't mean "emperor". Can anybody explain why this is? --Auximines 08:41, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
- It's not really about translation, it's about status. At the time of the opening of Japan to the West, in the 1850s, the "Tenno" would be dealing with the Emperor of France, the British Empire (ruled by a Queen, but one who would become an Empress in 20 years) (and the German Kings, but this would become an empire in 20 years), and the "Tsar" of Russia and wanted equal status from which to deal. An "Imperial Highness" was preferable to a "Royal Highness". Translating "Tenno" as "Emperor" solved the equality problem. - Nunh-huh 09:02, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
- So the use of the word "emperor" pre-dates the Japanese empire? That partially explains it. However, it's still a little surprising that the word "emperor" is still used, given its negative connotations. --Auximines 09:14, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
- You have it backward. The word "emperor" was determined as a translation for "Tenno" at least over a millenium later than his status became stable, and it stabilized over a millenium before English language even existed. So, it's the problem with English. Japanese language allows for using different terms for various rulers like mentioned in the article, but English doesn't have THE word to represents Tenno and wikipedia didn't let Tenno as the word to accurately discribe the status. Thus, any feeling one may has of "emperor" is completely meaningless. It's like demanding every dead and living Germans and Austrians named "Adolf" to change his name because it reminds them of someone named Hitler. Revth 09:07, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
There's an artcile for kokyo. --Outis 04:56, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Cleanup
Our Korean friend has inserted his poorly formatted entries into History. Someone please clean this up. --Golbez 16:01, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
Bonzai
I lived in Japan for 2 and a half years and am a WWII historian so I know a little bit about the Japanese Emperor during those years. I would really like to see some info here about the phrase the Japanese soldiers used to shout before going into battle. Forgive my attmept, but it sounds something like "Henjo Hayka! Bonzai!!" What is the translation and the significance of this battle cry? Thanks to whoever can give an answer -Husnock 02:29, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- You're very close. Banzai ="Ten thousand years". It's approximately how long East Asians used to wish to their leaders to live for. Give or take a few years. --Menchi 03:11, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
According to this Japanese Wikipedia article, the full shout used by the Japanese Imperial army was "天皇陛下万歳" (tennou heika banzai), or "Ten thousand years to His Majesty the Emperor!". -- ran (talk) 01:40, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)