Talk:Asteraceae

I hope that I'm not screwing up the template for plants too much. But I couldn't understand what was going on before I changed the introduction. (What's Asteraceae, for example?) In particular, the article didn't begin with a definition! -- Toby 01:22 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)

Note: Content was moved from Composite family. --Jiang 22:48, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

---

I've written a brief page on Joe-Pye weed, which I have studied and photographed. I expect to add a photo or two, and more information. But I have a question. Should not the plant species be listed by their genus and species names, with cross reference to the common names? I suppose this can be done through the list on this page, but it doesn't seem to me to be the most convenient way to do it. There are several species of Eupatorium. The question is important to me, as I hope to add a number of wildflower species in the future. Pollinator 17:50, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Hmmm....no answer.... guess we are "on our own." -- Pollinator 17:50, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Hello Pollinator. No answer because you need to wait until someone interested in that page sees your entry ;) (I have it on my watch list). Unfortunately, although I have broadband, Wikipedia is nearly impossible to work on at this time of day. I've spent over 15 minutes getting logged on and just getting to this page. First, as to names: It is policy around here to put the plants up under common name if they have one (i.e., Joe-Pye weed). If there are several species in the same genus, you can discuss them on that same page if they have no widely used common name, or even create a genus page Eupatorium still keeping the common name article for the better known species. I would try and keep close related plants together within a single article, just because the amount that can be written about the more obscure ones is probably limited. I'll keep an eye out and help you format as you create pages. Do not worry about it if text on the pages get moved around; old pages make useful redirects in most cases. - Marshman

Another comment - the photo on this page had moved in the current version, so that it overlaps the right hand column. I'm just starting to learn pictures, so I have no idea how to fix it. The photo is simply too big for the left column. Even though the column appears wider below the menu choices, it isn't. This pushes the image over into the right column. I hate to make such a nice image smaller. I tried to put it at the top of the right column, but that somehow bumped the chart into the left side, so I restored it. Any help? Pollinator 18:31, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I'm interested in these plant pages too, and have experience with HTML, so I can work with you on your picture formatting. Why are you moving it around? I can see the trouble you got into, but I'm unclear where you want to move it to. Does it not appear correct on your browser? If not, I can reduce image and link to a larger version for close inspection - Marshman 20:57, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I moved it in an attempt to stop the photo from covering part of the chart (completely blocking the view). It didn't work, so I put it back. The photo is too wide for the left hand column. Could the chart on the right be narrowed to expand the left column. Pollinator 21:28, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

You must have your screen resolution set very low. I reduced the size of the image a bit. See if it works better now. Since the right column is all text, it cannot easily be narrowed without putting the whole page in HTML (not a good idea I think). However, the right column can be moved down with the figure placed at the very top of the page, if the two are going to conflict. - Marshman 21:38, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I see where the problem originated. Someone added too many common names to the genus Eupatorium, making the right column much larger. I can fix. - Marshman 21:43, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

OK, you are right on that. I reset the screen resolution to 1024 - 768 from 800 - 600 and it now all fits on the page. However the type is now so small I have trouble reading it, so I'm going to have to go back to the other. I guess it's time to spring for a newer, bigger monitor, eh? I got a new computer, but kept the old monitor to save money.... Pollinator 21:51, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC) BTW, Marshman, I like what of your work I've seen. Pollinator 21:51, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Thanks! I look forward to your providing more text and pictures on the plant articles. This stuff is much more fun when it is collaborative. We hope to have things work in all settings, but the problem was primarily that the common names in the boxed column had gotton too long for some species. I was able to narrow that column by dropping some down and deleting others (there was alot of redundancy. You can be a tester for the 800 wide screens! - Marshman 02:47, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Problems

1) A number of old style names, not based on the name of the type genus, are defined in the IBCN as valid alternate familial names. Compositae is one of these. (Also Umbelliferae, Cruciferae, Guttiferae, Palmae, Labiatae, ...)

So we should remove the "formerly" ? - Marshman 23:02, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

2) The classification is at best dated. (I'm not sure that there was ever a consensus for restricting Cichorioideae to a single tribe.) See

http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/Research/APweb/orders/asteralesweb.htm#Asteraceae

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/92/22/10379.pdf

3) The "flowers" of Compositae are capitula (sing. capitulum), which are a subset of inflorescences. They differ from other capitula, such as those of clovers (Trifolium) in having a common receptacle. I'm not sure how to distinguish them from the flower heads of teasels (Dipsacus) or eryngos (Eryngium). (The capitulum of a composite is homologous to the inflorescence of other flowering plants; I'm not so certain the receptacle is homologous to the receptacle of other flowering plants.) (A partial model - which I have no real evidence for - of the evolution of the capitulum is to take an umbellate inflorescence such as those of Umbellifereae (Apiaceae) and reduce the lengths of the pedicles so that the flowers attach directly to the end of the peduncle.)

S.R. Hinsley, www.meden.demon.co.uk

Link suggestions

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Asteraceae article, and they have been placed on this page for your convenience.
Tip: Some people find it helpful if these suggestions are shown on this talk page, rather than on another page. To do this, just add {{User:LinkBot/suggestions/Asteraceae}} to this page. — LinkBot 10:40, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)