Talk:Anti-French sentiment in the United States
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Removed from the article
Hi. I found this in the part that discussed France's military intervention in the Ivory Coast. Since I don't know how to NPOV it, and can't find a place in the article to put counterarguments, I did what hardcore fans of the Wiki system balk at and moved it out altogether.
(this last point does not hold since France intervened in the frame of a long-signed assistance treaty with the Ivorian government as a consequence of the peaceful de-colonization involving maintenance of permanent troops even in times of peace).
Those who know what should be done with it are encouraged to do so. -- Kizor 17:06, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Needs serious work
This article is an abject failure in terms of NPOV and is much too long. It reads more as apologia for the sentiments of its various authors than a serious attempt to dissect the problem. As an example, how can any article on this topic not mention Vichy? The explanations for anti-French sentiment in the context of the Iraq invasion focus totally on the "usual suspects" of media manipulation, etc. and make no attempt to provide historical context. Mascarasnake 22:34, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I agree, international anti-french sentiment also needs addressed, and is profound in its absence. [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) 22:52, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Well, international anti-french sentiment should be addressed briefly or at least linked, but this article is titled "...in the united states" so it's good that it focuses on just the US. Though, perhaps is focuses too much on the recent anti-french sentiment. Bananaclaw 07:32, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'm rather sure that the United States is not the only country in which anti-French sentiment is prevalent. Anti-French sentiment is found in the UK, Germany, and a few other countries, I'm rather certain... That should definitely be adressed, instead of portraying the United States as hating France for not going along with it during the Iraq invasion. The actual truth, that the mutual animosity goes deeper and further into the past was mentioned, though not to the degree to which it should have been. The portions regarding de Gaulle should be added to, as well as the fact that de Gaulle attempted to block the UK's entrance into the European Community because of Churchill's support of the "special relationship" between the UK and the United States. Something should also be said about Vichy France and their collaboration with the Nazi occupiers.
- This is our only article on anti-french sentiment, and was largely written in response to the events of post-9/11 / the second Iraq war. that doesn't mean we couldn't move the article to a new title, if the content shifted to the broader subject of anti-french sentiment. I would favor such a circumstance, but the article is certainly not ready for that now, the vast majority of it focuses on a very narrow timeframe and series of events. [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) 11:28, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- At least i started the books and references list ... How can we fight ignorance? --Neuromancien 02:58, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- As for Germany, I don't know of any similiar anti-french sentiments (usually only anti-US). -- 84.163.46.247 15:36, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The fact that Moore went to Cannes doesn't indicate that he is pro-France. A neutral (or even pro-Bush) movie director would accept any award in one of the most prestigious movie festivals in the world. (Also note that the jury was international with an American president, so it may have chosen Moore for his anti-Bush ideas, but not for his alleged pro-French sentiments).Thbz 10:22, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- If I may propose some tracks to extend it to other countries: there is also anti-French racism in former colonies (needless to say, but better when it is said), and in overseas territories (yes they are French, but some don't like the metropolitans).
- There is also a long history of war against England (Joan of Arc and all the stuff).
- But, well, over and over we come back to clichés...
- Cdang|write me 17:34, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC), damn' froggie
I do think that such completely DISGUSTING sites as "FuckFrance..." should be deleted. I found one of these sites, and I tried to send them an e-mail, telling them how it was DISGUSTING (I'm not French, but Italian). But it seems impossible to have anything published by these gentlemen, if you don't agree with them. I'm not even sure that they've read my message. Please, DELETE THEM! User:Tom Hope March 31, 2005, 21.20
French Fries
I) This term is not used in Belgium, as the article suggest. In Germany, France and Belgium "french fries" are called "pommes frittes" (pronounced "pomm fritt"). "pommes" comes from "pommmes de terre", which is: potatoes. "fritte" is deep frying. In Germany both parts of the original name are often used instead of the complete term (i.e.: "pommes" (pronounced "pommse" and "fritten").
II) The "french" in "french fries" referres to the fact that the potatoes are "frenched" (i.e.: sliced into strips) before frying them. AFAIK that is also why "french toast" has that "french accent" (see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French)
Slice and move
Much of this article is simply a reaction to the Iraq war and feels tacked-on and less than relevant. I suggest:
- Moving relevent parts of the first half to Franco-American relations
- Severely pruning the Iraq war bit.
- Adding anti-French sentiment from other countries. England to begin with, Europe generally (distrust of French continental hegomony in the 18th and early 19th centuries etc.) and finally former French colonies. The anti-French sentiment in the U.S. could of course remain, but be made much shorter.
- Finally, re-naming the article Anti-French sentiment.
To be fair, I think a Francophilia article is also justified. French fashion and culture has had an enormous impact after all, particularly on other Europeans. I'm not up for this at the moment but someone should attempt it. This article is hard to justify as it stands. Marskell 06:18, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I would disagree. The swell of anti-French sentiment in the United States during this last decade was a marked, unique phenomenon, and warrants its own article. That many media personalities and politicians made deliberate efforts to exacerbate this phenomenon as it developed further evidences its unique status as an event, political effort, and noticable shift in public opinion.
- Anon, doesn't strike you as silly to have Franco-American relations and this one? And, as has been pointed out, you could justiy a bunch of dubious x-anti-y articles based on this. A logical loop here: either the anti-French sentiment involved is unique to the U.S. in which case Franco-American relations ought to suffice or it is not unique to the U.S. and this it should be altered and retitled Anti-French sentiment. In either case this article is unnecessary. Marskell 18:18, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)