Talk:Amway

Template:POV check

I have edited the article today (08 January 2003) to promote a more neutral point of view. The article seemed to be biased, just slightly, to an anti-amway perspective; I have deleted nothing, but have added a few relevant facts from "the other side" to balance the viewpoint. (David Cannon)

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Are there any sites that have confirmed the "organic" environmental-friendly claims of Amyway products or at least the LOC all purpose cleaner product? (formerly known as Zoom)

"Amway Motivational Organizations (AMOs)" seem not to exist. I just asked a 30-year Amway distributor what they are, and she has never heard that term.

Type "Amway Motivational Organization" into Google, if you can be bothered. AxelBoldt

my apologies, I should have been clearer - that is a name exclusive to critics of Amway, and should be mentioned as such. Someone doing that search will not find answers from Amway or pro-Amway folks as they don't use that term.

There are, aligned with Quixtar, groups like ina.net that fit this description and do the training and motivation of Quixtar distributors, who distribute Amway and other products through a common distribution arm.

So what's your point again? AxelBoldt

these groups are called Independent Marketing Companies or something else by Quixter, ina.net is one of these.

It's a fundamental issue with direct multi-level marketing organizations that they can't control the behavior of frontline distributors, probably no more than Arafat can control the timing of suicide bombers. Same top-down versus bottom-up behavior influence debate... the Amway Corp does try to make certain things standard, e.g. no "door to door selling", and they succeed in general, but they have only a few blunt instruments with which to do so.

This article needs to be updated, and the "AMOs" need to be documented - I don't doubt that somewhere somehow someone used this name for them, but they serve a legitimate role in multi-level marketing, although they may overstep it and become bad religions...

Oh God. Now 24 starts to preach MLM in addition to "embodied mind" and "ecoregion". AxelBoldt

ecologists preach "ecoregion", psychologists preach "embodied mind" - I merely report. As to your issue with MLM, it's seems to me to be an issue with capitalism. Which I think I gave very neutral treatment to. You want an economic system driven by human desire and advertising, you're going to see a lot of people conned, often. That may or may not be the fault of the organization that provides the products and the attracive payoff scheme.

a neutral fact is that Amway has created more millionaires than any other company in the world, Microsoft is only second. Both companies are hated but it's a combination of envy *and* perhaps some abuses of market position that account for it. MLM schemes come and go, Amway/Quixtar has stayed. Of course not everyone succeeds in it. But the millionaires aren't complaining.

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The FTC ruling was allegedly initiated by Proctor and Gamble, who competes with Amway for sales of packaged consumer goods. P&G were concerned about continued erosion of their market share by Amway and businesses with a similar structure to Amway's.

Who has alleged this when and where?

Rather than contest the charges, which could have resulted in distributors suffering financially because of a court injunction prenting business during a trial, Amway paid the fine. Amway later successfully appealed the fine but did not appeal the conviction -- again to avoid causing suffering to its network of distributors.

How could they appeal the conviction when they had pleaded guilty in the first place? Are you saying that they first paid the fine, then successfully appealed the fine and got the money back? How much did they pay in the end? AxelBoldt 03:42 Jan 15, 2003 (UTC)

____ I see somebody has added something about Emma Page jewellery being available through Amway in Australia, as well as New Zealand. Please provide a source for this. I am well aware of its availability in NZ; my wife and I are both Amway distributors and have sold Emma Page jewellery under Amway auspices. In Australia, however, my understanding is that Emma Page has its own distribution network; only in New Zealand does it contract Amway. That was the last I heard (last year) - that Australian Amway distributors were very envious of their New Zealand counterparts because there is a substantial profit in Emma Page. Now, for all I know, this MAY have changed. If it has, could you name your source? I will make some inquiries myself; in the meantime, I will let your edit stand. Davidcannon 11:09, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Purported cult

This material is from the article List of purported cults, which we are paring down to a pure list. Editors here can best evaluate its statements and decide how to integrate it into this article. Thanks, -Willmcw 21:09, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

Amway ===

Critics, many of them former Amway distributors, claim that Amway distribution networks (which technically are independent from the company itself) are cults or cultlike. They claim that the distribution networks encourage people to dedicate their lives to efforts that usually will make them little money, encourage people to not think for themselves, encourage unthinking fanaticism for Amway products, encourage people to deceive others and hide the truth from outsiders, and use mind control and psychological pressure to encourage people to join the organization and to discourage them from leaving.

On its Web site, the company denies that it is a cult. "No, Amway Corporation is a business and, similar to other large and established companies, has a distinct environment defined by shared business goals. Shared business philosophies should not be misinterpreted as a cult."

References:

• http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Amway/ (Ex-Cult Resource Center)
• http://www.amway.com/en/General/faqs-10229.aspx#10217 (Amway)

Poorly Edited and Lots of POV

I came to this site looking for unbiased information so that I could make a fair evaluation for myself. I have previously been highly skeptical of all multi-level marketing systems and remain so, however, I was afraid I had not been open minded about the idea and wanted more information. I did not find it. This article contains numerous spelling and/or grammatical errors and shows poor proofreading. "IBO" is never written out on this page, I think it's probably "Independent Business Organizatons" or something like that, but abbreviations should be explained on this page. The only pro-Amway linnk is their corporate website, there must be others. The use of the word "kingpin" and the phrase "train wreck" are very far from the Wikipedia call for unbiased language and the paragraph that cites Independent Media TV as well as one that follows do not allow for errors in reporting or POV in those reports but recite the reports as facts themselves. This article needs a lot of work. Unfortunately, I came here looking for information I didn't already have and still don't. Someone else will have to rewrite this entry and I will have to look elsewhere for my information. -- DH 2005.04.07

Information on cultic/illegal characteristics

I've added some information surrounding Amway's cultic characteristics and complications with the legal system, as well as my own observations regarding the behavioural conformity of AMOs with Hassan and Jay Lifton's models of mind control, and mention of G Robert Blakey's expert report from Amway v Proctor & Gamble. However, I've tried to keep this information limited to what I hope are demonstrable facts rather than value judgements/interpretations, and have also largely confined my additions to the "Criticisms" section. Although my opinion of Amway most certainly is not either neutral or positive, it is my hope that because my additions have been contained in Criticisms, and because I have made an attempt to keep my additions factual, a reasonably neutral tone can be maintained, while at the same time noting Amway's less ethically desirable characteristics. I have also removed the references to the terms "train wreck" and "kingpins" in an attempt to create a more neutral tone. - Petrus 06/05/2005

Someone has removed my reference to the Blakey report, which I don't believe is really appropriate. That report includes important information about the structure of Amway...I think it's important that someone thinking of becoming involved with Amway should know if they are potentially becoming involved with a quasi-criminal organisation. - Petrus 08/05/2005